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Old 02-18-2009, 04:36 PM   #1
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New Sub Panel Photos


HI again;

This is the sub panel we installed at my parents, I think it looks a little nicer than my own panel, in terms of how the wires are routed / bundled. There main panel looks pretty nice also, I'll have to get some photo of that one next time the cover is off.

This panel is fed with 6awg to the 60A breaker on the bottom right. All connections to the panel are made with THHN in EMT. The EMT runs directly to various locations in this side of the house, where in some cases it goes directly to the destination, some it transitions to smurf, some it junctions to romex.

The MWBC are taped together as they enter (with the neutral) and the hots on a MWBC are taped just before the breaker.

New Sub Panel Photos-img_5325.jpg

New Sub Panel Photos-img_5326.jpg

New Sub Panel Photos-img_5327.jpg

New Sub Panel Photos-img_5329.jpg

Jamie

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Old 02-18-2009, 08:16 PM   #2
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Nice work right there I'm jealous of that nice new sub panel...wish my houses panels looked close to that...

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Old 02-18-2009, 08:20 PM   #3
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How come only one of the conduits get a fancy offset?


Do you have a hold down bracket for the backfed 60?
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:43 PM   #4
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neat job. why the electrical tape again?

and is that 14ga. wire with 20 Amp breakers?Hard to tell from the photos.

11 20amp two pole breakers? 60 amp feed? why all the two pole breakers? Do you have a shop youre running from home?

(bored)

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Old 02-18-2009, 08:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by junkcollector View Post
How come only one of the conduits get a fancy offset?


Do you have a hold down bracket for the backfed 60?
I do like the "fancy" shiny connectors. They only sell them in small packs that are about twice as expensive. I actually make a point to use the shiny ones on my own panel. The 3/4" emt fittings are not available in the less expensive bulk packs at the store I shop at most of the time (menards), so I end up buying the more expensive shiny ones for my 3/4" fittings. I see one of the 3/4" fittings on there isn't a shiny one, not sure where it came from.

The "fancy" fittings are actually much better than the other ones, they have far more threads on them and the bushing stay on them much better than the other dull looking fittings.

This is what the hold downs look like on the CH panels:

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Thanks!

Jamie
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Weeks View Post
why the electrical tape again?

11 20amp two pole breakers? 60 amp feed? why all the two pole breakers?
Multi-wire circuits - taped together

DP Breakers feed the MWC
I do the same for my double circuits that feed 40a timers for my Christmas display. I "only" have maybe (3) 20a 240v breakers for my display
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Weeks View Post
neat job. why the electrical tape again?

and is that 14ga. wire with 20 Amp breakers?Hard to tell from the photos.

11 20amp two pole breakers? 60 amp feed? why all the two pole breakers? Do you have a shop youre running from home?

(bored)
Electrical tape is how I "bundle" my MWBC, It's my understanding that NEC 2008 requires MWBC's to be bundled in the panel. Even if they are not requiring it, I don't think it is a bad pratice to bundle the MWBC's. Zip ties slip around too much next to the breaker, so I use the tape to bundle them.

My colors, Yellow, Red, Green, are all 12awg. The orange, and 1 white are 14awg on a double 15A on the right side towards the bottom. The black on the right double 30A is 10awg, and the black feeding the 60A is 6awg.

The double pole breakers are because I run MWBC's for almost everything to make the best use of conduit. You can run 8 120v circuits in a conduit with MWBC's vs 4 with regular circuits. 2008 requires double pole for MWBC's.

The only double pole feeding out of that panel that really feed's a 240v load is the double 30 that feeds the garage. The mwbc's are 240v if both legs were combined, but they aren't.

The work shop is right next to the house, but is connected to the house next door. It is a bit of a mess, I am going to re-do that next, I have a 12 space cuttler CH panel to install there.

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Old 02-18-2009, 09:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Multi-wire circuits - taped together

DP Breakers feed the MWC
I do the same for my double circuits that feed 40a timers for my Christmas display. I "only" have maybe (3) 20a 240v breakers for my display
The whole setup of MWBC's feeding conduit that branches out to feed stuff in the house works extremely well. It keeps the panel very clean, and keeps all of the romex burried in ceiling and walls, nothing gets exposed anywhere, not even on the panel wall. I love using THHN in conduit, I find it really easy to work with.

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Old 02-18-2009, 09:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
Nice work right there I'm jealous of that nice new sub panel...wish my houses panels looked close to that...
Thanks! Only has taken 5 weeks to re-do the entire house. Just a handful of misc outlets left to deal with and a few lights on the front porch that rarely get used. It take a bit of practice and patients to make the panels look nice like this.
Can you clean up your current panels or are you going to have to start clean to get them looking nice?
Jamie
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Thanks! Only has taken 5 weeks to re-do the entire house. Just a handful of misc outlets left to deal with and a few lights on the front porch that rarely get used. It take a bit of practice and patients to make the panels look nice like this.
Can you clean up your current panels or are you going to have to start clean to get them looking nice?
Jamie

I might be able to get my panels looking better, its just so annoying with all the mwbcs and no slack. I have removed a couple of unused breakers and have made new labels to replace the old ones. Right now I need to fix a circuit, where the wire broke off right at the connector...means fishing new wire...and its impossible to get to the top plate.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:32 PM   #11
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I might be able to get my panels looking better, its just so annoying with all the mwbcs and no slack. I have removed a couple of unused breakers and have made new labels to replace the old ones. Right now I need to fix a circuit, where the wire broke off right at the connector...means fishing new wire...and its impossible to get to the top plate.
Why not put a junction box up in the ceiling where you have some room, and slack to work with on the cable, then run a little piece of romex from the ceiling down to the panel. Make the junction up there in the ceiling where you have lots of slack and run new thhn into the panel? I did this with my old circuits in my house and it worked very well. They were very tight on slack and would not even come close to reaching to the new panel.

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Old 02-18-2009, 09:33 PM   #12
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I do like the look without all the NMB sticking out everywhere

I had 5 junction boxes near my main panel, and I mean BIG junction boxes. Nothing was labeled, a real mess, old cloth wiring. It was upgraded from 100a to 200a before we bought the house

Fear is looking in your 200a panel & realizing that water is dripping IN your panel from the feed wire. I had the service buried & a new panel installed. I added a 100 sub, 60a sub in the pool cabana

I ran the 5 wires on the side when the old panel was there. The electrician was supposed to run them in the top when the new panel went in. I was pretty ticked when I saw he ran them in the side

I use an excel spreadsheet to track circuits & what they feed
Then I print them out & staple them up near the panel
The three grey boxes on the right are timers for the Christmas display - 40a each. I have a 4th timer - not used yet
To the right of the three boxes there are sets of blank face GFCI's that go to each outside circuit

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Old 02-19-2009, 06:16 AM   #13
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always learning something new. now I have to look up what the MWBC and what its for and why run 'em.

compared to all the rats nests you see out there, thats one really neat job. I saw some union boxes that were perfect kinda like yours
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:03 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Why not put a junction box up in the ceiling where you have some room, and slack to work with on the cable, then run a little piece of romex from the ceiling down to the panel. Make the junction up there in the ceiling where you have lots of slack and run new thhn into the panel? I did this with my old circuits in my house and it worked very well. They were very tight on slack and would not even come close to reaching to the new panel.

Jamie

I might do that, just want to find a large junction box.

I have two 200 amp panels, one with all of the bx and some new circuits, and one with all of the romex. I will try to clean the panels up sometime. Somebody "lost" 4 screws on each cover. I got new screws for the covers.
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:15 AM   #15
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always learning something new. now I have to look up what the MWBC and what its for and why run 'em.

compared to all the rats nests you see out there, thats one really neat job. I saw some union boxes that were perfect kinda like yours
MWBC stands for "multi wire branch circuit" Means we can stick in a double pole breaker (exceptions per 2005 code, required everywhere in the 2008) and feed a circuit with two hots and only one neutral. They share the neutral and the neutral takes the current balance between the two. In a perfectly balanced load, the neutral sees 0 amps.

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