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Old 07-23-2012, 01:38 PM   #1
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new receptacle for countertop appliances


Hi All,

I have an old house with only one real outlet for the countertop in the kitchen. I have another one inside the kitchen cabinet, close to the countertop. We won't use this one for anything. So I thought I could install a surface mounted box and wiring coming from that outlet (I would have to cut a small hole on the cabinet.). Two questions arise:

1. Is surface mounted wiring OK in the kitchen? The outlet would be about 4 ft from the kitchen sink.

2. As of now, these outlets are not GFCI, The first outlet for this circuit is on the kitchen wall. Is it OK if I just replace the wall outlet with a GFCI and protect the circuit downstream this way? I want the new receptacle to be regular grounded (non-GFCI) because it it's surface mounted, depth counts. I'm not even sure there are surface mounted GFCI receptacles. Another solution would be a GFCI breaker, but it's more expensive and less convenient.

This would be so much simpler than cutting into the wall and pull wires there.

Thanks,

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:55 PM   #2
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new receptacle for countertop appliances


This will work , but there are ways to do it without cutting the cabinet or having exposed conduit on your backsplash .
I would make sure the power was off, then I would take apart the plug in the cabinet. if the wires are long enough (6" out of the wall or longer), then you can mount a shallow j-box inside the cabinet, over the hole form the box you just removed. Once the receptacle is seperated from the house wiring , bust out or remove the cabinet receptecle box. Makes sure not to damage the wires! You are now going to try and install a recessed receptecle on the same 2x4 the cabinet receptecle was on. There may be some wood going horizontaly across the bottom of the cabinet, if you , drill a hole going down from inside your cabinet. Fish the wire to your freshly cut hole for your new receptecle box. Hook it all up. If you know the exact flow of your circuit, yes, you can install a gfci on the first receptecle , and it would protect the wiring on the load side of the circuit.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csab_ View Post
I have an old house with only one real outlet for the countertop in the kitchen.

1. Is surface mounted wiring OK in the kitchen?
The outlet would be about 4 ft from the kitchen sink.

2. As of now, these outlets are not GFCI
You *are* planning to remodel the kitchen in the next couple of years... right?
Pull the two (or more) new circuits you need over to the kitchen and bring those wires up inside the wall to at least one location for the GFI devices.

Once you've done that you'll say... "Yeah, it's kind of a PITA but it isn't really that bad" and so you'll then extend those circuits to the add'l locations you want power at and also run those in the wall all as it really should be.

One hint: DEEP old work boxes.

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Old 07-23-2012, 04:32 PM   #4
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new receptacle for countertop appliances


bomtoots: The receptacle inside the cabinet is is horizontally placed from the new one. So in fact the counter ends, and there is a big, tall part of the cabinet at the end of the counter and the receptacle is inside that one. About the same height as the new one should be. I'm just saying that I can't install a box on the same 2x4. Of course your plan would still work with an old work box, but that's the kind of job I'm trying to avoid.

TarheelTerp: I'm not sure we want to remodel. Actually it is more likely we will move in a few years. I also can't pull more circuits, because I have no space in my main panel. If I want a new panel, I would have to move the old one, because it's location is contrary to any current code (inside basement bathroom, over wide bathroom counter). So now we're talking about $2000+ for a receptacle...
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:09 PM   #5
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Can you use Tandem breakers in your current panel? Post pictures of the kitchen outlets in question, and the panel. As for rewiring or pulling for the new outlet, you can place a junction box on the ceiling in the basement, and pull from the current circuit another outlet on the counter for the new outlet. As for the one in the cabinet, can it be pulled back into the basement and used for the new outlet location, by placing that circuit into the junction box?

You kind of have to think outside of the box, when doing retro electrical jobs for older homes. As for the changing of the cur. panel, why not just flip it around to the wall behind it, unless it is a outside wall that it is on, then you just need to figure out how to move it enough to get it on the wall outside the bath. I do not see how it would cost $2,000.00 for a panel move, due to someone in the past built the bath around it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:51 PM   #6
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OK, I will post pictures later. I already started the job, but of course I can make pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Can you use Tandem breakers in your current panel?
The space problem in the panel is on the neutral/ground bus.

Quote:
As for rewiring or pulling for the new outlet, you can place a junction box on the ceiling in the basement, and pull from the current circuit another outlet on the counter for the new outlet. As for the one in the cabinet, can it be pulled back into the basement and used for the new outlet location, by placing that circuit into the junction box?
These solution would be still way more complicated than the surface mounted rail and outlet solution.

Quote:
As for the changing of the cur. panel, why not just flip it around to the wall behind it, unless it is a outside wall that it is on,
Yes, it's an outside wall and furthermore, it is below ground level.

Quote:
then you just need to figure out how to move it enough to get it on the wall outside the bath. I do not see how it would cost $2,000.00 for a panel move, due to someone in the past built the bath around it.
Well, outside the bath there is a kitchen with kitchen counter. The closest suitable wall in the basement is pretty far actually. The best solution (which I will get done if we stay in the house for more than a few years) is to move it to the outside wall, just after the meter. Circuits will have to be extended by 4-5 feet. I think it would be around $2000.

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