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Old 01-26-2010, 03:25 PM   #1
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New Pool Installation Question


All,

I am pretty handy and pulled and wired all the electirical for my basemen (pulled permit and passed inspection). I am getting a pool installed and had some questions:


My electrical meter and main panel (200 AMP) (inside the house) is on the west side of my house the pool pad will be located on the east side.

1.) Can I install a 100 AM subpanel on the east side of my house that would take care of the pool and a hot tub?

2.) I have problem a where my basement where the main panel is located is finished can I run metal shield wiring through an open rafter I have access to only at the ends? If not any suggestions how I can bring power from main to the sub-panel not having to trench 50 feet around my house to the main?


3.) My plan is to use THWN (10/3) from the house to the pool equipment and from the hot tub to the sub panel as well as from the subpanel to the main is that a problem?


4.) I would also like to wire three outlets from the pool back to the subpanel can you recommend parts and pieces for this as well. My plan is to use PVC and the THWN inside buried 18".


V/r,
Carla

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Old 01-26-2010, 04:47 PM   #2
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Have you purchased the pool and hot tub?

What is the total amperage of the hot tub?

What is the total amperage of the pool? Will it ever be heated and will this be electric and what amperage?

I would suggest gathering together all the manufacturer's installation instruction documents / specifications for this. Then take plenty of pictures of all the areas/breaker panel - future breaker panel location, etc. Then go and ask your local electrical inspector's office.

Might even want to break this up into two separate projects. Just install breaker panel, then next project to connect hot tub/pool.

Also if the pool is not yet installed, take pictures of the whole area including the area above where the pool will go (looking for overhead electrical lines). Show all these to the inspector.

There are all sorts of specific rules for pools. Best to run the entire plan by an inspector first. Also there are problems with locating a pool below overhead electrical lines.

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Old 01-26-2010, 05:51 PM   #3
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New Pool Installation Question


I am not going to say that it cannot be done as a DIY project, but there are definitely a lot of items beyond just running the power to the pumps. You have needed clearences between the water and disconnects, other metallic parts, the need for proper bonding. Installation of a bond grid under the hot tub and around the pool is required along with bonding the water and ladders and all the steel rebar and any lighting fixtures. There will also be requirement for GFI protection.


All of this is required for a safe installation and I would recommend someone well versed and licensed to perform this work.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:15 PM   #4
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No I have brought the hot tub yet.

The pool requirements are as follows:

Pump: 11.2A
Heater (Gas): 6.0 A
Sanitizer: 4.0 AMPS



We will have some 12V lights coming back as well. I would also like 3 outlets around the pool for radio, cleaner, etc.


We have no overhead power lines all run underground and the inspector has no problem with our location of the pool.

I would like to run all the cables and have the electrician put in the panel and hook up to the main but I want to buy everything needed and run and bury the cablework outside.

Carla



Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
Have you purchased the pool and hot tub?

What is the total amperage of the hot tub?

What is the total amperage of the pool? Will it ever be heated and will this be electric and what amperage?

I would suggest gathering together all the manufacturer's installation instruction documents / specifications for this. Then take plenty of pictures of all the areas/breaker panel - future breaker panel location, etc. Then go and ask your local electrical inspector's office.

Might even want to break this up into two separate projects. Just install breaker panel, then next project to connect hot tub/pool.

Also if the pool is not yet installed, take pictures of the whole area including the area above where the pool will go (looking for overhead electrical lines). Show all these to the inspector.

There are all sorts of specific rules for pools. Best to run the entire plan by an inspector first. Also there are problems with locating a pool below overhead electrical lines.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:18 PM   #5
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Jim,

Great points I want to be educated when I talk to the bidders as well. The pool company is running the copper around the pool for bonding as well as putting in rebar and copper bonding squares for pool deck and hot tub. I want to minimize some of the manual labor that I am paying $145.00 an hour to do.

Carla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
I am not going to say that it cannot be done as a DIY project, but there are definitely a lot of items beyond just running the power to the pumps. You have needed clearences between the water and disconnects, other metallic parts, the need for proper bonding. Installation of a bond grid under the hot tub and around the pool is required along with bonding the water and ladders and all the steel rebar and any lighting fixtures. There will also be requirement for GFI protection.


All of this is required for a safe installation and I would recommend someone well versed and licensed to perform this work.
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla_Il View Post

I would like to run all the cables and have the electrician put in the panel and hook up to the main but I want to buy everything needed and run and bury the cablework outside.
IMO this is BAD idea!

You may think you are doing the "easy" stuff, but what you propose is the technical hard part. "The hookups" as many laypeople like to call them (we DON'T though) are the easy part.

Knowing what to run and to where and all the restrictions/requirements are CRITICAL.
This is all going underground. Not only underground, but under decking or pavers or whatever. You DO NOT want to make a mistake and put something that is required in the wrong spot so that it not only has to be removed but replaced in a new location.

Let a qualified electrician do this job. You'll be much happier in the end.

Question: Why the HELL does a pool guy get to charge DOUBLE what I do?????
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:44 PM   #7
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Wiring a swimming pool is NOT a DIY Job. To many specalized codes. Get a copy of a NEC code book and read Article 680 and see if you can understand all of it. Then come back and ask questions.
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeone View Post
Wiring a swimming pool is NOT a DIY Job. To many specalized codes. Get a copy of a NEC code book and read Article 680 and see if you can understand all of it. Then come back and ask questions.
Amen. Wiring pools gives many licensed electricians the creeps.

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Old 01-26-2010, 08:15 PM   #9
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Ok guys thank you.

I would like to note I do know NEC 680 pretty well read it many times. That is how I know to remind the pool guy that he needed to put down copper mesh and rebar so that the electrician could bond. I am a EE but I guess that does not count. I know I am not a Master electrician but it does pain me to pay to have him trench an 18" hole run put in PVC and cable. I felt I could at least do that and save money. I guess that is not a option.

Carla
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:29 PM   #10
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New Pool Installation Question


Carla Il (Poster #1. Original Poster) I've read what all the Professionals (who spent a Lifetime in the electrical field) Downstream from your post are saying. Please listen to them. Even though this is DIY. We are supposed to encourage people to do projects themselves. (I'm myself a DIY'er besides having spent more than 30 Years installing and repairing Electrical wiring and systems on Residential, Commercial and Industrial sites. But I did many projects in Plumbing and suspended Ceilings, too.) But there comes a time when we have to call in the PROs. Or those that are more specialized in certain fields than we are. This is one of them. Besides, reading the National Electrical Code Book (even those editions that are illustrated) will not help design and execute this comprehensive project with all the specific requirements and restrictions in a safe and cost-effective manner!
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:31 PM   #11
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Understood Thank you.
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:33 PM   #12
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I ran a sub to my pool cabana to replace a MWBC that no longer would supply enough power (new pump)
The pool was already there with all the bonding wires etc

Not sure I'd want to tackle a new pool setup
Dig the trench, let him run the pipe & wires
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla_Il View Post
Ok guys thank you.

but it does pain me to pay to have him trench an 18" hole run put in PVC Carla
A question I have here for you is why do you say an 18" hole?
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:56 PM   #14
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Not hole tench it will be about 51' run.

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A question I have here for you is why do you say an 18" hole?
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:59 PM   #15
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Hi Carla

Let a good electrician (one that has pool experience) do all the electrical for you. You should conference with him on how he plans to run the electrical from the service equipment to the east side of the house for pool equipment and the hot tub. Let him take care of the trenching ... at 145$ an hour I'd almost drive up there and do it for you ...

Any wiring to a pool panel with breakers in it .. is a feeder .. and must have wires installed in conduit like pvc and a minimum #12 insulated ground. Your earlier post about using THWN 10/3 will not be adequate for a pool panel that is also going to support a hot tub. This is all the more reason to leave this up to a good pool electrician. Let him make all these decisions. Make him earn his money ...

Be sure to get your buried lines located before you trench anything...

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