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Old 02-03-2008, 06:30 PM   #1
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New panel to code?


I installed a new main panel and just want to make sure everything looks good before the inspector comes out tomorrow. The yellow and white branch circuits will be nailed to the plywood and ran through the joists after the Superbowl is over. I also have a couple questions:

1. The oven circuit is an old 3 wire install. On this type of install is the 3rd wire to be connected to the ground or neutral bar?

2. The box is grounded to a grounding rod; does it also need to be grounded to a water pipe?

Thanks for the help,
Ben
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:43 PM   #2
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New panel to code?


1) Neutral bar.

2) YES, you certainly do need to bond/ground the water pipe.
Can I safely assume you are not familiar with these requirements? IMO this is something you should have thought about BEFORE starting this project.

What is the water pipe entering the house? Plastic or copper?

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Old 02-03-2008, 06:58 PM   #3
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Thank you for the quick response.

I did think of the requirements before I started the project. I even bought the copper wire to run from the water pipe and ran it from the pipe to just outside the panel.
I was then looking for the answer to #1. Which I admit was something I didn't think of because in the old panel there was only a neutral/ground bar. I then ran into a post saying you shouldn't ground to two places for fear of a grounding loop.
Now as you can see from the picture I have the oven circuit attached to the neutral bar and was 99% sure I needed to ground to the water pipe. Because of the nature of DIY sites I thought I should double check because I had seen conflicting information. As the saying goes “better safe then dead”.

To answer your question: Copper.
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcoleman6 View Post
To answer your question: Copper.
OK, then in that case you must connect to the water pipe within 5 feet of where the pipe enters the house. This is your PRIMARY grounding electrode. Yes, the water pipe IS a grounding electrode.
You also need a supplemental electrode, which you have already in the form of the ground rod. Depending on your local requirements you may even need two ground rods.
Use #6cu to the rods and #8cu to the water pipe (I see you have a 100A service). You can use #6 for both.
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:14 PM   #5
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New panel to code?


Thanks for the info speedy.

This site has saved me countless thousands of $.

Any other issues you see?
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcoleman6 View Post
This site has saved me countless thousands of $.

Any other issues you see?
No, not really.

Can I borrow $10 bucks?
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:20 PM   #7
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Nope, but you can have $9 for your time. You have a paypal account?
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:28 PM   #8
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Ah forget it. Just remember me in your will.
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:00 PM   #9
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New panel to code?


I can't see and didn;t read it but is your neutral and ground bonded at the panel?

Most small panels like this come with a green bonding screw to run through the neutral bus and into the panel tub to bond them together. Some of them have a small strap that attaches to the neutral bar and to the tub that does the same thing.

If neither of these are provided, you will need to make a bonding jumper using wire.
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:31 PM   #10
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Yep, the neutral is bonded via a strap.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:14 PM   #11
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New panel to code?


I am assumeing in the US of A your allowed to to make joints in the panel, i have always been told that we are not allowed, but that could be a Canadian rule.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:19 PM   #12
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I am assumeing in the US of A your allowed to to make joints in the panel, i have always been told that we are not allowed, but that could be a Canadian rule.
"Could be a rule"??? Isn't this something you should know for sure before commenting on?

Splicing in a panel in a case like this is perfectly fine. IMO it is a better job than putting several splice boxes above the panel and extending the whole branch circuit because one wire was too short.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
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OK, then in that case you must connect to the water pipe within 5 feet of where the pipe enters the house. This is your PRIMARY grounding electrode. Yes, the water pipe IS a grounding electrode.
Speedy, how did you figure out his water pipe counts as an GEC?
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:44 PM   #14
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Speedy, how did you figure out his water pipe counts as an GEC?
it is not a GEC, it is a grounding electrode and it is because the code tells us so.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:45 PM   #15
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New panel to code?


Quote:
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Yep, the neutral is bonded via a strap.

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