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Old 07-13-2010, 06:01 PM   #1
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new light fixture won't turn off.


I removed an old ceiling fan from the dining room of a friends home recently.
Straightforward, or so I thought. I took down the old fan and light, installed the new light fixture, turned it on and bravo, it worked.

I actually only turned it on, never turned it off. Then my friend calls me later and tells me the light won't turn off. I go over today and did the following;

I replaced the switch, with a new one, thinking maybe that was the problem.
Nope, still stays on.

In the switch box the single pole switch has black and white wires going to it, so that makes me believe it is an end of loop?

The junction box has 4 black leads and 4 white leads, one which was terminated by someone else.

I simply connected black to black white to white. I tried each one of the black leads individually and only one worked, but the light still stayed on.

Obviously it is getting power somewhere, I think there may be a 3 way switch in there somewhere?

I'm baffled by what is going on here, anyone have a theory?

Thanks, Terry

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:24 PM   #2
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new light fixture won't turn off.


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Originally Posted by iceracer View Post
I removed an old ceiling fan from the dining room of a friends home recently.
Straightforward, or so I thought. I took down the old fan and light, installed the new light fixture
Thanks, Terry
How was the "old" fan and light controlled? Did the switch control just the light with the fan being controlled with a pull chain?
You replaced this with just a light?
When you were through with the change, did you actually have operate the switch after you restored power to the circuit or did you restore power and the light came on and you never did operate the switch?

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Old 07-13-2010, 10:08 PM   #3
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new light fixture won't turn off.


If it is a switch loop the white wire to the switch needs to connect with the other blacks. The black from the switch connects to the light.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:42 PM   #4
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new light fixture won't turn off.


Quote:
How was the "old" fan and light controlled? Did the switch control just the light with the fan being controlled with a pull chain?
You replaced this with just a light?
When you were through with the change, did you actually have operate the switch after you restored power to the circuit or did you restore power and the light came on and you never did operate the switch?
I'm not sure how the fan and light were controlled, I just removed what was there and re connected the wires.

I cannot recall the sequence, the switch must have been on when I flipped the breaker and my friend and I just figured "cool it works" and then left it on. Was not till later that night when he was going to bed that the light would not turn off.

I was speaking to the electrician neighbour and he thinks it is the terminated wire that I need to connect to. I'll check it out tomorrow.

Thanks, Terry
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:34 AM   #5
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new light fixture won't turn off.


The new light/fan has a black wire that should be connected to the black wire that goes down to the switch. For separate switch control of light and fan there would be another colored wire coming out of the light unit (probably blue). For controlling both with the same switch you connect the blue wire to the same black wire going down to the switch. There is also has a white wire from the light that you connect to the bunch of white wires in the box.

Did you connect everything the way it used to be, except the new light fixture is substituted for the old?

Or did you do a little guessing using color matching as a guide?

You were lucky this time. Simply matching white to white and black to black could have created a short circuit when the switch was flipped to on, depending on exactly what you did.

A white wire connected to a switch is not a neutral in modern wiring and the other end must therefore not be connected to a bunch of whites.

It is not a good idea to undo more than one wire nut leaving the loose ends to get mixed up with one another. Many projects become very complicated this way as it is necessary to find out what went where before reconnecting the wires.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 07-14-2010 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:08 PM   #6
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new light fixture won't turn off.


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If it is a switch loop the white wire to the switch needs to connect with the other blacks. The black from the switch connects to the light.
Like Joed says it should look like this you simply had an oversite on how the white wire in the cable to the switch is connected at the fixture box.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:22 PM   #7
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new light fixture won't turn off.


Thanks for all the very detailed replies.
I was over there today and resolved it.

It turns out the black wire that had previously been terminated, was connected to the switch.

It had been tucked up into the JB and I had not noticed it on the original install.

There is another light fixture (track light) in the kitchen that does not work and a 2 receptacle gangbox nearby, that is a bit of a mess that I am reluctant to try and trouble shoot. Think I'll stick to the finish carpentry and painting, they can get an electrician for the remainder.

Thanks again for the help, Terry

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