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Old 01-09-2015, 12:13 PM   #1
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The house I am building is small and has a concrete slab floor. As I understand it because of the slab floor all outlets will have to be ground fault protected. I have purchased a 2014 NEC residential handbook and will be having a friend who is licensed to assist and also do much of the wiring. He does not do electrical work full time and may not know everything code wise so I want to know as much as possible so between the two of us the result will be 100% code compliant. My understanding is Tennessee is still using the 2011 code book which I am having trouble confirming. The only difference that could affect me is the addition of bathrooms and kitchens needing arc fault breakers. I even have no problem going with 2014 codes whether required or not. My only concern is if I have enough spaces in the 30 space QO panel box I bought before learning of the expansion of the Arc fault requirement. After much reading of the handbook I still am unsure about a few things concerning Arc and ground fault coverage.
What is required for 240V appliances like Heat pump compressors, tank type water heaters, ranges, heat pump heat strips, dryers? Also for 120 volt things like dedicated circuits to refrigerators, and microwaves. My basic plan for known arc fault requirements is to use combination arc fault breakers and have the first outlet a ground fault receptical. Is it normal for a permit issued under a 2011 NEC code to be inspected under that code.
Thanks
JM

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Old 01-09-2015, 12:24 PM   #2
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You are probably confusing GFCI with AFCI. If the house finished then GFCI is not required except in garage, outside, kitchen and bathrooms.
AFCI is required in all living areas.

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Old 01-09-2015, 12:31 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ddsrph View Post
The house I am building is small and has a concrete slab floor. As I understand it because of the slab floor all outlets will have to be ground fault protected. I have purchased a 2014 NEC residential handbook and will be having a friend who is licensed to assist and also do much of the wiring. He does not do electrical work full time and may not know everything code wise so I want to know as much as possible so between the two of us the result will be 100% code compliant. My understanding is Tennessee is still using the 2011 code book which I am having trouble confirming. The only difference that could affect me is the addition of bathrooms and kitchens needing arc fault breakers. I even have no problem going with 2014 codes whether required or not. My only concern is if I have enough spaces in the 30 space QO panel box I bought before learning of the expansion of the Arc fault requirement. After much reading of the handbook I still am unsure about a few things concerning Arc and ground fault coverage.
What is required for 240V appliances like Heat pump compressors, tank type water heaters, ranges, heat pump heat strips, dryers? Also for 120 volt things like dedicated circuits to refrigerators, and microwaves. My basic plan for known arc fault requirements is to use combination arc fault breakers and have the first outlet a ground fault receptical. Is it normal for a permit issued under a 2011 NEC code to be inspected under that code.
Thanks
JM
Under the 2014 GFCI is only needed for the laundry, garage, unfinished basements, exterior, kitchen , baths ect.

AFCI is needed on nearly all 120 volt circuits.

There is good news. Square D and other manufacturers make a dual function AFCI/GFCI that is a combination AFCI and a GFCI in a single package. This way, places like the kitchen that need both will be happy with them.

Though not required, you could order extra and just put all of the 120 volt outlet circuits on AFCI+GFCI protection if looking for maximum protection.
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:54 PM   #4
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If it helps, the code sections on residential AFCI and GFCI protection requirements;

GFCIs:
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New house-gfci1.jpg   New house-gfci2.jpg   New house-gfci3.jpg  
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:56 PM   #5
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AFCIs:
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New house-afci1.jpg   New house-afci2.jpg   New house-afci3.jpg   New house-afci4.jpg   New house-afci5.jpg  

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Old 01-09-2015, 12:56 PM   #6
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When you look for a panel look for one with the neutral rail for the AFCI breakers instead of the breakers having the curly pigtail.
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Old 01-09-2015, 01:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
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When you look for a panel look for one with the neutral rail for the AFCI breakers instead of the breakers having the curly pigtail.
Jim
It's already too late I already bought a QO panel. Can you buy the additional piece to convert?

The other part of my question concerned 240V circuits and required Arc and ground fault protection. Namely Range, Heat pump compressor and heat strips,
Tank water heater, dryer.

My confusion concerning ground fault stems from the fact that the house is all slab and fifty percent of the slab area is below grade making it essentially a finished walk out basement.


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Old 01-09-2015, 01:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddsrph View Post
Jim
It's already too late I already bought a QO panel. Can you buy the additional piece to convert?

The other part of my question concerned 240V circuits and required Arc and ground fault protection. Namely Range, Heat pump compressor and heat strips,
Tank water heater, dryer.

My confusion concerning ground fault stems from the fact that the house is all slab and fifty percent of the slab area is below grade making it essentially a finished walk out basement.


Thanks
JM

Can you return the panel for a swap?

240 volt circuits do not need ground fault or arc fault protection. Hot tubs and the like need GFCI, but the rest are not required.
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Old 01-09-2015, 01:25 PM   #9
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The make both a QO and low cost homeline:


http://static.schneider-electric.us/...1100HO1202.pdf

http://www.schneider-electric.com/pr...-load-centers/

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Old 01-09-2015, 01:29 PM   #10
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Probably not as I have thrown away the box it came in. Does the GFi and Arc fault combo breakers available in the pig tail and non pig tail type? The box I bought is a 200A 30 space standard sq D QO. As long as I can get proper breakers I don't mind the pig tails but would have preferred the newer if I had known about it.

Also do dedicated circuits to washing machines and microwaves and refrigerators need GFI and or Arc fault breakers?

Thanks
jM

Last edited by ddsrph; 01-09-2015 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:37 PM   #11
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The QO dual function breakers come in both versions.
Here is a link to the 15 amp DF pigtail.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-...vZbm16Z1z0rk1w
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:40 PM   #12
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It doesn't mater that is a slab house or that it is below grade. It matters that it is finished space or not.
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:40 PM   #13
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What "residential handbook" are you referring to?? I trust it's not some excerpt from the actual code - those are very hard for the typical DIYer to interpret and understand. When I built my house a few years ago, I bought a Code-Check book. There's a series of them covering electrical, plumbing, and other aspects of construction, and they are much more layman-friendly.

If currently (pardon the pun) required where you live, fine, but if not, I wouldn't bother with AFCI breakers. Fortunately, code here at the time required them only for bedrooms. The breakers themselves cost more than ten times what regular Square D breakers did.

I've never heard of the requirement for GFI protection everywhere in a slab-foundation house, nor do I see any logic behind it. Hopefully a pro will chime in here and enlighten us.
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Old 01-09-2015, 02:48 PM   #14
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Oso 954
Thanks.
I am a little concerned about getting only a 30 space box but a quick count makes me think I will have enough spaces. My original plan was to use one or two of the dual breakers that take up only one space. This will be more complicated with the new arc fault requirement. In reading my 2014 NEC residential handbook it looks like a regular breaker at the box could be used with a combination arc fault outlet at the first receptacle which would allow me to use a twin breaker and gain a space if needed. Am I reading this correctly? the home run will have to go directly to the first outlet to qualify for this setup.
Thanks
JM
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:02 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=md2lgyk;1594561]What "residential handbook" are you referring to?? I trust it's not some excerpt from the actual code - those are very hard for the typical DIYer to interpret and understand. When I built my house a few years ago, I bought a Code-Check book. There's a series of them covering electrical, plumbing, and other aspects of construction, and they are much more layman-friendly.

If currently (pardon the pun) required where you live, fine, but if not, I wouldn't bother with AFCI breakers. Fortunately, code here at the time required them only for bedrooms. The breakers themselves cost more than ten times what regular Square D breakers did.

I've never heard of the requirement for GFI protection everywhere in a slab-foundation house, nor do I see any logic behind it. Hopefully a pro will chime in here and enlighten us.[/QUOTE

Yes it's the actual NEC publication. You are right it's not the most user friendly of books. Kind of reminds me of some of the FAA stuff I have to deal with. We have adopted the NEC 2011 and maybe 2014 here in Tennessee so I have to use the Arc fault breakers. One thing I don't like about the whole thing is that they don't protect against what I think is the biggest fire hazard a high resistance/loose corroded connection. If a house gets built with no nails driven thru wires it probably won't happen later by hanging a few pictures. But I have no problem going with whatever is required as I am saving a bundle by building 1200 sq feet versus 3 or 4 thousand.

Thanks
JM

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