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Old 12-02-2008, 05:13 PM   #1
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New detached garage, wiring, questions


I have some questions about my up coming garage wiring job. This will all be permitted and inspected and I'd rather not have the inspector laugh at me and make me re-do stuff

1) I have been assuming that I can put a maximum of 12 duplex receptacles on one 20 amp breaker. Is that actually correct?

2) I would like to have several welder outlets. These would be 240 volt, 50 amp, two conductor + ground. Can I put more than one on a breaker? Does that mean having accessible junction boxes to branch the circuit? Is it a good idea to use wire nuts on #6 CU conductors in this application?

3) I think I'll use #1 AL cable from the main panel in the house to the sub panel in the garage, underground (100 amp feed, about 50 feet total length). 1.5" conduit would be plenty for that, wouldn't it? What size would you actually use?

4) Is there any requirement or guideline for how close the ground rods need to be to the sub panel?

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Old 12-02-2008, 07:47 PM   #2
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New detached garage, wiring, questions


I may be wrong about this, but I believe a single receptacle (not duplex) of any type must be on it's own breaker.

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Old 12-02-2008, 07:59 PM   #3
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I may be wrong about this, but I believe a single receptacle (not duplex) of any type must be on it's own breaker.
Nope your wrong. But, if you do use a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit, it shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
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Old 12-03-2008, 04:07 PM   #4
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Nobody?
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Old 12-03-2008, 04:32 PM   #5
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Nobody?

I wish I could help, I have been watching this thread as well to see the answers. Sometimes on this site, few people will answer the questions, then other times, you get tons of answers. I hope those electrical wizards will chime in for you.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:44 PM   #6
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could you post pictures of what you are doing. I am going to try and prewire my studio. Then have the electrician come out and do the dangerous work like connecting the wiring to the main house box( meter box I think). It almost sounds like something I am trying to do because my studio is detached and about 25 feet from the meter box on the house.

Thanks
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
1) I have been assuming that I can put a maximum of 12 duplex receptacles on one 20 amp breaker. Is that actually correct?
10 to 12 is reasonable. In the USA there is no maximum for general purpose branch circuits serving cord and plug equipment. You do have to use a little common sense.....
Quote:
2) I would like to have several welder outlets. These would be 240 volt, 50 amp, two conductor + ground. Can I put more than one on a breaker? Does that mean having accessible junction boxes to branch the circuit? Is it a good idea to use wire nuts on #6 CU conductors in this
application?
Only one welder or more than one welder being used at one time?

It's about connected load...you can't run two welders requiring 50 amp branch circuits off one 50 amp double pole breaker. In general welder circuits are dedicated one welder in residential applications. You can use an extension cord made up to give you portability to different areas of the garage.

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3) I think I'll use #1 AL cable from the main panel in the house to the sub panel in the garage, underground (100 amp feed, about 50 feet total length). 1.5" conduit would be plenty for that, wouldn't it? What size would you actually use?
3 #1 al wet rated with a #6 al ground wire. 1 1/2" sch 40 is fine same for sch 80 where required.

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4) Is there any requirement or guideline for how close the ground rods need to be to the sub panel?
No... locate them outside the drip edge of the roof and no closer than 6 feet to each other.

Washington requires 4 wire feeds to detached buildings with neutral and ground separated in the sub panel. This may require adding a ground bar . Use this diagram as a guide.....but you need to know what your doing and why or you will screw it up. You need a disconnecting means at the garage such as a main breaker sub panel immediately where the feeder comes into the garage. Some jurisdictions will allow a panel with no more than 6 breakers requiring no more than 6 throws of the hand as the disconnect. In this case a mlo panel is allowed or you may use a back fed breaker design utilizing a hold down kit on the main breaker.


Last edited by Stubbie; 12-04-2008 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:51 PM   #8
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Only one welder or more than one welder being used at one time?
One at a time, it's just for flexibility. I've got an extension, but it's quite ridiculously large and unwieldy.

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Washington requires 4 wire feeds to detached buildings with neutral and ground separated in the sub panel. This may require adding a ground bar . Use this diagram as a guide.....but you need to know what your doing and why or you will screw it up. You need a disconnecting means at the garage such as a main breaker sub panel immediately where the feeder comes into the garage. Some jurisdictions will allow a panel with no more than 6 breakers requiring no more than 6 throws of the hand as the disconnect. In this case a mlo panel is allowed or you may use a back fed breaker design utilizing a hold down kit on the main breaker.
I know pretty well what I'm doing, but there are always a few little details I'm not sure I have worked out. I picked up a 200 amp QO 30 space panel with a main breaker, because hey, there's no such thing as too many spaces And I also got the add on ground bar.

Thanks for the help
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:15 PM   #9
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I'm glad you have a sense of humor.....

I'd say you are fine with your plan then. I'm not real sure how the inspector will approach several 50 amp welder receptacles on a single 50 amp breaker, you may have a little trouble getting him to buy it.

Other than that you look good on your knowledge of what is required so far.

You certainly will have enough spaces......
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:10 PM   #10
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I'm glad you have a sense of humor.....

I'd say you are fine with your plan then. I'm not real sure how the inspector will approach several 50 amp welder receptacles on a single 50 amp breaker, you may have a little trouble getting him to buy it.

Other than that you look good on your knowledge of what is required so far.

You certainly will have enough spaces......
Three #6 wires at each connection. That should be fun. I haven't seen any wire nuts rated for that. Time for these:
http://www.polarisconnectors.com/370...EXTRA_IPL1.pdf

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