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Old 04-15-2010, 11:54 PM   #1
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Neutral wire to ground bond


I have a 240v receptacle and I noticed a neutral wire coming from the neutral bus connects to the ground screw on the receptacle. Receptacle is working fine. What is this doing to the current/electricity cycle?

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Old 04-16-2010, 12:40 AM   #2
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Neutral wire to ground bond


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I have a 240v receptacle and I noticed a neutral wire coming from the neutral bus connects to the ground screw on the receptacle. Receptacle is working fine. What is this doing to the current/electricity cycle?
Whats the ground wire connected too? What Color are the hot legs?

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Old 04-16-2010, 01:17 AM   #3
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Neutral wire to ground bond


There is no ground wire. The color of the hot wires is black.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:57 AM   #4
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Neutral wire to ground bond


What is the configuration of that outlet? There are some that require a neutral, but are not grounded, such as the old style range and dryer outlets.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:06 AM   #5
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Neutral wire to ground bond


240V recept should have 4 wires: 2 hot legs (red & black), 1 neutral (white), 1 ground (bare).
There are 4 prong & 3 prong styles. For 3 prong, you would not use the neutral, it should not be tied to ground. If it is done that way, it will still function correctly as you described since neutral and ground is bonded at the panel. But something that functions doesn't mean its right. Got a picture of the receptacle in question?
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:49 AM   #6
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Neutral wire to ground bond


250V receps do not have a neutral. 125/250V receps have a neutral and a ground.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:03 AM   #7
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Neutral wire to ground bond


What color is this "neutral wire"?

What is the outlet for?

How total many slots/prongs on the outlet?

Does the appliance plugged into this outlet need just 240 volts? Or 240 volts and 120 volts?

And what kind of electric panel does the wire come from? A main panel with a shared neutral/ground bar? Or a subpanel with a neutral bar (not bonded* to the metal case) and a separate ground bar (bonded to the metal case)?

*Means electrically connected. Done with a "bonding" screw.

And if a subpanel (with separate neutral/ground bars), is this "neutral wire" connected to the neutral bar or to the ground bar?
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:42 PM   #8
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Neutral wire to ground bond


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Originally Posted by acerunner View Post
240V recept should have 4 wires: 2 hot legs (red & black), 1 neutral (white), 1 ground (bare).
There are 4 prong & 3 prong styles. For 3 prong, you would not use the neutral, it should not be tied to ground. If it is done that way, it will still function correctly as you described since neutral and ground is bonded at the panel. But something that functions doesn't mean its right. Got a picture of the receptacle in question?
This is not correct. An older "3-wire" 120/240v receptacle uses a neutral, NOT a ground. The neutral serves both purposes.

The way you describe it the bare ground is acting as a current carrying neutral and is dangerous.

A straight 240v receptacle uses no neutral as it is a line-to-line circuit.

The fact that they are connected to the same bar in the main panel is completely irrelevant. It's what happens outside the main panel that matters.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:20 PM   #9
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Neutral wire to ground bond


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This is not correct. An older "3-wire" 120/240v receptacle uses a neutral, NOT a ground. The neutral serves both purposes.

The way you describe it the bare ground is acting as a current carrying neutral and is dangerous.

A straight 240v receptacle uses no neutral as it is a line-to-line circuit.

The fact that they are connected to the same bar in the main panel is completely irrelevant. It's what happens outside the main panel that matters.
I was not talking about the ungrounded 120/240v outlets. Those are obsolete now. There are still 3 prong 240-only outlets that are 2 hot legs that provide the 240V and a ground. I believe they are used for stuff like AC. I've seen them used for air compressors.

The fact that neutral and ground is connected at panel IS relevant because the outlet would still function as it should, but the user will be oblivious to improper wiring.

I have no problems being wrong. If I am, please educate me.

Last edited by acerunner; 04-16-2010 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:45 PM   #10
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Neutral wire to ground bond


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Originally Posted by acerunner View Post
I was not talking about the ungrounded 120/240v outlets. Those are obsolete now.
OK, sorry. That's what I thought you were talking about after reading this:

Quote:
240V recept should have 4 wires: 2 hot legs (red & black), 1 neutral (white), 1 ground (bare).
There are 4 prong & 3 prong styles. .....
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:23 PM   #11
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Neutral wire to ground bond





The white wire that's on top of the other white wire (has some sort of tape) is connected to the neutral bus bar.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:24 PM   #12
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Neutral wire to ground bond


BTW, this is a 120v receptacle running at 240v.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:32 PM   #13
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Neutral wire to ground bond


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Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
What color is this "neutral wire"?
White

Quote:
How total many slots/prongs on the outlet?
3
Quote:
Does the appliance plugged into this outlet need just 240 volts? Or 240 volts and 120 volts?
240v

Quote:
And what kind of electric panel does the wire come from? A main panel with a shared neutral/ground bar? Or a subpanel with a neutral bar (not bonded* to the metal case) and a separate ground bar (bonded to the metal case)?

And if a subpanel (with separate neutral/ground bars), is this "neutral wire" connected to the neutral bar or to the ground bar?
It comes from the main panel, which IS NOT bonded and has a separate ground and neutral bus bar. This main panel is not supposed to work as a main panel, but the moron who installed this for me broke every possible code rule in the process.

This main panel is not grounded. The wire in question is connected to the neutral bus bar.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:25 PM   #14
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Neutral wire to ground bond


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Originally Posted by RichardPryor View Post
I have a 240v receptacle and I noticed a neutral wire coming from the neutral bus connects to the ground screw on the receptacle. Receptacle is working fine. What is this doing to the current/electricity cycle?
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Originally Posted by RichardPryor View Post
BTW, this is a 120v receptacle running at 240v.
Okay, so now you DON'T have a 240v receptacle...how about a picture of the front...

This is a serious safety hazard and a code violation. Get rid of the whole setup and start from scratch.

By the way, what are you plugging into this 120V receptacle and running it at 240V? The plugs and receptacles are designed in different configurations so you can't do just that. What do you think is going to happen when you plug in a 120V piece of equipment into that rigged receptacle that has 240V on it???!
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:03 AM   #15
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Neutral wire to ground bond


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Okay, so now you DON'T have a 240v receptacle...how about a picture of the front...


Receptacles in question are the ones on the left hand side... the 4 on top and the 4 on the bottom.

Quote:
This is a serious safety hazard and a code violation.
I know, that's why I came here... to find out how to do it right.

Quote:
By the way, what are you plugging into this 120V receptacle and running it at 240V?
multi tap ballasts.


Quote:
What do you think is going to happen when you plug in a 120V piece of equipment into that rigged receptacle that has 240V on it???!
That will never happen.


Before I get labeled as the bad guy, I would like to get some answers. I paid some crook to do this for me, and he broke all sort of rules and regulations. Now I've been reading non stop for 3 days and feel like I'm capable of doing it myself with a little guidance. Thanks for your help and understanding.

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