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Old 10-03-2012, 06:55 PM   #31
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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Originally Posted by Daltex View Post
With your current situation I can only tell you what I would do.

Have the seller or his rep sign a doc stating that you and the seller will find a licensed master electrician that is neutral. Both you and the seller meet with the electrician and have him evaluate the situation based solely on code/safety aspects. The cost of the repairs determined by the electrician will be deducted from the purchase price unless they exceed $XX.XX (a mutualy agreed upon price).

If the seller balks it's up to you do decide if you want the house bad enough to eat the cost of the repairs.

Repairs prior to sale would be my last choice. You want your electrician doing the work.

Regarding the big concerns I'd look into the POCO's price for the transformer upgrade.
Daltex - what's a POCO's price? I think we are fine with seller fixing the electrical panel as long as they have receipts and inspection notes to show from the electrician.

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Old 10-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #32
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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Originally Posted by asledge

Daltex - what's a POCO's price? I think we are fine with seller fixing the electrical panel as long as they have receipts and inspection notes to show from the electrician.
Hes assuming that you would have to have a new transformer set outside by your power company. I have only had this once when we turned a 200 amp service into a 800 amp service. Dont worry about it. I highly doubt it would be needed.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #33
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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would upgrading to 200amp require just a change in the electrical panel and breakers or is there more to it than that? You mentioned something about #4 copper minimum.
200A service would require a larger diameter wire from the "pole" or service main.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:34 PM   #34
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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Originally Posted by hammerlane

200A service would require a larger diameter wire from the "pole" or service main.
Not from the pole. But from the point of attachment down.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:44 PM   #35
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daltex View Post
With your current situation I can only tell you what I would do.

Have the seller or his rep sign a doc stating that you and the seller will find a licensed master electrician that is neutral. Both you and the seller meet with the electrician and have him evaluate the situation based solely on code/safety aspects. The cost of the repairs determined by the electrician will be deducted from the purchase price unless they exceed $XX.XX (a mutualy agreed upon price).

If the seller balks it's up to you do decide if you want the house bad enough to eat the cost of the repairs.

Repairs prior to sale would be my last choice. You want your electrician doing the work.

Regarding the big concerns I'd look into the POCO's price for the transformer upgrade.
Daltex - thanks for your advice. Looks like everyone else is busy watching the Presidential debates!

Quick question for ALL - do you know if electricians charge fees to come look at the electric panel? I just found out that it was not my agent, but the seller's agent who has used this electrician in the past, who recommended a quick fix for the electric panel and breakers. I would like to get a 3rd party electrician like you (Daltex) suggested and was wondering if there is a charge for getting estimates of the fixes?

Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:46 PM   #36
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


Quote:
Originally Posted by asledge

Daltex - thanks for your advice. Looks like everyone else is busy watching the Presidential debates!

Quick question for ALL - do you know if electricians charge fees to come look at the electric panel? I just found out that it was not my agent, but the seller's agent who has used this electrician in the past, who recommended a quick fix for the electric panel and breakers. I would like to get a 3rd party electrician like you (Daltex) suggested and was wondering if there is a charge for getting estimates of the fixes?

Thanks.
It depends. I charge for a normal service call when a call like this comes in. Others might not.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:56 PM   #37
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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Not from the pole. But from the point of attachment down.
Dierte - thanks for your response. I am calling a neutral electrician to the house on Friday to get an estimate of:

a) Fixing existing 100amp panel to bring it up to code (seller's cost)
b) Upgrading to 200amps, whether it's possible and exact costs (my cost)

Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate all your help on this!
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:07 PM   #38
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


My mistake about the 60A breaker and #6 wire. The split buss and IR photo threw me. 100A looks correct. If the electric hasn't changed since the house was built, Speedy Petey is correct, it's all grandfathered in. But, if improvements were made, like adding central air or gas changed to electric appliances, new load calcs were supposed to be done. And inspections should have failed when calculated amps exceeded capacity. So, if improvements were done and capacity was exceeded then someone dropped the ball. I believe this is an important unsafe condition. The other big issue is if the power busses are shot. This causes arcing, sparking and overheating.

Last edited by Glennsparky; 10-03-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #39
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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My mistake about the 60A breaker and #6 wire. The split buss and IR photo threw me. 100A looks correct. If the electric hasn't changed since the house was built, Speedy Petey is correct, it's all grandfathered in. But, if improvements were made, like adding central air or gas changed to electric appliances, new load calcs were supposed to be done. And inspections should have failed when calculated amps exceeded capacity. So, if improvements were done and capacity was exceeded then someone dropped the ball. I believe this is an important unsafe condition.
Glennsparky - thanks for the update.

Silly question - if I were to upgrade to 200 amps would I need to rewire the entire house with new wires or like Dierte is suggesting that 200A service would require a larger diameter wire from the point of attachment down? I don't quite understand what goes into the upgrade process (in terms of time, money, and raw materials) so just wondering if it's a simple question or a loaded one?

Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:22 PM   #40
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I just looked at a 1800 square foot house that had mostly gas appliances. It calculated out to need less than 50 amp service. Even with air conditioning added it will still be less than 100.

The people have been living with this service for years. Unless the main has been tripping it sounds like the service size is fine.

There is no way the HI should be giving out prices. Unless they did a load calculation they would just be guessing at the electrical service size needed. Just because the panel is full does not mean it is overloaded.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:30 PM   #41
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


Quote:
Originally Posted by asledge

Glennsparky - thanks for the update.

Silly question - if I were to upgrade to 200 amps would I need to rewire the entire house with new wires or like Dierte is suggesting that 200A service would require a larger diameter wire from the point of attachment down? I don't quite understand what goes into the upgrade process (in terms of time, money, and raw materials) so just wondering if it's a simple question or a loaded one?


Thanks.
Service change replaces from point of attachment to meter. From meter to panel. Replace panel and update grounding. The only benefit it will have for you is future expansion. I know you talked about replacing all appliances with electric appliances.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:39 PM   #42
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
I just looked at a 1800 square foot house that had mostly gas appliances. It calculated out to need less than 50 amp service. Even with air conditioning added it will still be less than 100.

The people have been living with this service for years. Unless the main has been tripping it sounds like the service size is fine.

There is no way the HI should be giving out prices. Unless they did a load calculation they would just be guessing at the electrical service size needed. Just because the panel is full does not mean it is overloaded.
Jim Port - thanks for your reply. I thought it should be pretty straight forward answer that 200 amp service is the way to go, especially since ALL our appliances are electric, the home is around 2500 sqft plus finished basement which adds around 1000 sqft. And we would like to add a home theater in the basement with a backup generator to the home if possible. I wonder whether it's possible to measure the required amp service without actually plugging and running all these appliances in the home.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:49 PM   #43
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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home


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Originally Posted by Dierte View Post
Service change replaces from point of attachment to meter. From meter to panel. Replace panel and update grounding. The only benefit it will have for you is future expansion. I know you talked about replacing all appliances with electric appliances.
Another silly question - when they fix the 100 amp breakers, does the electrician need to pull permits to do so? If so, when we upgrade to 200 amp will we need to pull permits again?

Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:49 PM   #44
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You can do a load calculation based on set parameters. Just plug in the numbers and go. You can find them online.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:51 PM   #45
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A permit will almost certainly be required for the upgrade. A permit may not be needed for the fixes.

A demand load calculation can be done without the appliances installed. You just need the data for the equipment.

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