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Need URGENT help with question regarding fixing electrical panel in home

16K views 66 replies 25 participants last post by  Baxter01 
#1 · (Edited)
We are negotiating with seller on a property, and the biggest issue that came up during home inspection was the electrical panel. I need some advice on how to proceed with this issue, and how to get the seller to fix it for us.

Here are the home specs:
Style - single family home
Sqft. - 2500
Basement - 900 sqft. (partial)

Issue: 100 amp panel, with double tapped circuit breakers to bring 60 amps into the home.
The home has a Zinsco electrical panel. And the home inspector pointed out that it had reached it's capacity, and this was a safety issue concerning the double tapped circuit breakers and recommended a replacement of the panel. He quoted a low end estimate of around $4000.

So we had requested the seller to look into this issue, and upgrade to 200 amps while they are replacing the panel. Seller called their own electrician to review. And the electrician is saying that it is a 100 amp panel. And that he would "fix some of the breakers" to get it to par. And that 100 amp service is enough for a 2500 sqft. home. So now the seller is reluctant to replace the panel and upgrade to 200 amps.

Our real estate agent (who is a family friend) has used the same electrician in her home, so she recommends I should call and speak to the electrician myself to find out about the issue and his recommendations.

History about existing renters in the home: They use 10+yr old appliances in the home. And during home inspection, when the dish washer would change cycles the lights would flicker in the entire house. Clearly, 100 amp service is not enough. And when we move in we will have newer appliances (all electric powered, not gas) and plan to have larger TV's, and a home theater in the basement and possibly a back up generator.

Questions for all electricians and people with experience in this area:

Is 100 amp service really enough to power our stuff in this home?
What is ideal for this type of home?
Would "fixing the breakers" really resolve the problem? (see attachment for a picture of the panel and notes from the home inspector)
The seller has been very stubborn through out our negotiations in fixing any health and safety issues. Is there anything I can say to the seller that would change her mind about fixing the home?

If you guys have any info please let me know. I have until tomorrow to respond to respond to the seller.

Thanks!
 

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#41 ·
asledge said:
Glennsparky - thanks for the update.

Silly question - if I were to upgrade to 200 amps would I need to rewire the entire house with new wires or like Dierte is suggesting that 200A service would require a larger diameter wire from the point of attachment down? I don't quite understand what goes into the upgrade process (in terms of time, money, and raw materials) so just wondering if it's a simple question or a loaded one?


Thanks.
Service change replaces from point of attachment to meter. From meter to panel. Replace panel and update grounding. The only benefit it will have for you is future expansion. I know you talked about replacing all appliances with electric appliances.
 
#45 ·
A permit will almost certainly be required for the upgrade. A permit may not be needed for the fixes.

A demand load calculation can be done without the appliances installed. You just need the data for the equipment.
 
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#51 ·
Jim Port - thanks for your response. Since you are a licensed electrician, I would like to ask: how long do you think it would take if I decide to upgrade from the existing 100 amps to 200 amps? (Including permits and labor time from start to finish)

I got a quote today from the seller's electrician for $3500 to upgrade to 200 amps which would include burial of the ComEd utility power line. He's been on the property and knows how much distance to and from meter/power line etc. But I forgot to ask how long would it take to get this done. Any ideas?
 
#48 ·
Sorry if I missed it but how old is the home? A 100a service was more than adequate for a home that large 25 years ago. But todays home is filled with electronics, and more and more electrical devices; chargers, computers, sound systems, televisions and you name it. On top of that you have an all electric home. In my opinion you are best served with a 200a panel. I have a 2800 sq ft home, 2 levels, and have a 200 amp panel with no breaker room. Make the best deal you can with the seller and then have YOUR electrician do the changeout.:yes:
 
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#49 ·
Make the best deal you can with the seller and then have YOUR electrician do the changeout.:yes:
I agree with Missouri with having the elctrician of YOUR choice do the work. Go with the larger 200 amp panel. Not saying mine is the best looking but look at the difference in size and clutter compared to the one in that house.
 

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#54 ·
Missouri Bound said:
Am I the only one who thinks that a 100a service is a bit small for an all electric 2500 sq. ft. home?:eek:
The numbers dont lie. Honestly i think that the method used is a bit outdated because of all the electronics found inside the home but i would bet that that at any given time the avg home uses around 10 amps total power. Not counting the big energy items
 
#57 ·
Missouri Bound said:
Am I the only one who thinks that a 100a service is a bit small for an all electric 2500 sq. ft. home?:eek:
Unless electric heat is in the equation or it so happens there's a hot tub or a heated pool it really shouldn't be too small. I used to live in a 2200 sqft home all elelctric with gas furnace and hot water with an ac unit almost double the size called for for the house. They also have a hottub. House ran along just fine on 100a.

Is it a bad idea to upgrade, probably not. Is it necessary right now, probably not.
 
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#55 ·
Just because the panel is at capacity does not mean that the breakers are faulty. IMO I think that you guys are trying to get the current home owner to do a service upgrade do you do not have too. If you can afford a 2500 sq ft home, fork over 1500$ and get the service upgrade AFTER you buy the house. This Is like buying a used vehicle, except before you buy it you want the seller to buy new tires for it before you do. Either buy the house or dont
 
#64 ·
simmular issue here i have an Fedral Pacific panel
http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
I didn't know about the issue with this panel just got a bad vibe when i looked at it. but in the offer before we had and inspector look at the house we asked for an upgrade to 200amp service and a new load center. the electricen gave us a price over the phone of 3000, the electricen the owener called in looked at the stituation and said 950 for the new load center, i thought this was okay till i found out about the current load center, now i know it will cost more. jsut waiting for the office home inspection report and to talk to the realistate agaent again.... the orignal plan was to turn the curent panel in to a subpanel till later then move every thing out to the new panel (load center)
 
#65 ·
better late than ------

Plan on completeing the upgrade yourself but I hope you insisted all the issues concerning anything at all that would flicker be rectified. Flickering is not a normal electrical condition under any circumstances. Period and should be investigated and corrected.
I personally would insist. Can o worms might just actually be rusty too.
For what it is worth the last 2 zinsco services installed on houses I did work on had welded or rusted mains that would not open electrically. Condensation from the riser and no deflection had rendered them useless.
Zinsco went out of business for a reason.
 
#66 ·
For what it is worth the last 2 zinsco services installed on houses I did work on had welded or rusted mains that would not open electrically. Condensation from the riser and no deflection had rendered them useless. Zinsco went out of business for a reason.
Have had the same happen with many other brands too. Moisture will do that to any panel. Have a murray panel change coming up that breakers are suck on the the bus and the main won't open. Have also see it happen to square d panels.
 
#67 ·
This thread is ridiculous. Had it occurred to you, the OP, that the seller does not have to do anything. Perhaps there is a situation where it is not an option for her to get beat down 4000 in her asking price. You are buying the house and although you can ask for some concessions I don't find her position unreasonable. And at the point you have pushed to get these changes made I would have told you there was no way, on principle alone, I would sell you the house.
Secondly, coming on here and asking for estimates is ridiculous. Although the electricians on here can give you rough ideas without seeing things in person there is no way they can be overly accurate.
Buying an old house means you get old house issues that you are responsible for. I promise that even though you may get this solved, as soon as you get confident and comfortable things are going to to break and fall apart. It is the nature of the beast.
I would say I wish you the best of luck but sadly, I don't. I feel you are asking for a lot after the seller has told you their position. You obviously have little respect for her.
 
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