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Old 01-05-2012, 06:45 AM   #76
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


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Then I'd make sure my neutral to the barn was hooked to the neutral bar, and the ground wire hooked to the ground bar in that small box
The main panel end doesn't matter...just seperate them in the barn. EDIT, oops, nevermind...the box we're talking about (in your basement) is a sub-panel right? Yea, it'd be better to seperate them.

And I see nothing wrong with your idea, if that's what you want to do.

Make sure you re-ID the neutral wire as white.

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Old 01-05-2012, 06:59 AM   #77
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


If you make the change from 240 to a 120 panel, every other breaker slot will not have power.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:51 AM   #78
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right




So true.....




Again, I should think all this out before I start talking huh....LOL
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:16 AM   #79
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


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Follow the link that kwilcox posted. About half way down the page you will see "view the xxxx edition online". After hitting that it should be easy to follow and it will bring you to the sign in page.

Note: I was only able to view 2008 and 2011. The earlier years just seem to have archived notes unless I'm doing something wrong.
Zappa thanks, i was able to View 2008 and 2011
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #80
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


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If you make the change from 240 to a 120 panel, every other breaker slot will not have power.
Unless he connects the single hot wire to both busses, which I believe he would be allowed to do. This seems like a reasonable solution.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:04 PM   #81
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


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Unless he connects the single hot wire to both busses, which I believe he would be allowed to do. This seems like a reasonable solution.

We all do it down here y'all....in "almost Arkansas" Jumper the busses is normal routine for many outbuildings and sheds.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:11 PM   #82
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


So, I talked to the head maintenance guy yesterday at a school I work at. He's a licensed electrician and does all of the school's electrical work. They pass their inspections, so I think he knows what he's talking about. I showed him the pictures in this forum. He told me the only place where the grounds and neutrals need to be separated by code is in the main panel. He told me to put another bar in the main panel that would be grounded to the box and move all my grounds to that and then move the ground wire to that bar. The neutrals should be isolated and not connected to anything.

He said after that, that the grounds and neutrals can be all on the same bars. I then ran my idea about changing my barn from being 240 to 120 so i'd only have one hot. one 2 gauge would be hot, one 2 gauge would be neutral and the 4 gauge would be ground. He said that would be fine as long as I tape the ground with green tape and the neutral with white... then it's code.

The only thing he pointed out that breaks code in my main box is that the wires running from the main box to the first sub panel, the wires aren't in conduit... and code states it needs to be in that. Which that will be an easy and cheap fix.

But the one thing I haven't gotten an answer from him on yet is, if grounds and neutrals are ok to be one and the same after the main box, then why bother running a ground and neutral from the barn to the house? Both wires will be running from the same bar in the barn to the same barn in the house... so they're just a duplicate wire. The only thing this confirms is I need to bond the neutral and grounds in the barn.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:54 PM   #83
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


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So, I talked to the head maintenance guy yesterday at a school I work at. He's a licensed electrician and does all of the school's electrical work. They pass their inspections, so I think he knows what he's talking about.
And then he proceeded to give you a bunch of advice that is demonstrably incorrect and clearly doesn't comply with multiple code sections that have been directly quoted in this discussion thread. And you believe him instead of our citations to the electrical code. Even though you apparently have absolutely no understanding of how an electrical system works.

Do whatever the hell you want. I'm done.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:05 PM   #84
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


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Originally Posted by dorlow View Post
So, I talked to the head maintenance guy yesterday at a school I work at. He's a licensed electrician and does all of the school's electrical work. They pass their inspections, so I think he knows what he's talking about. I showed him the pictures in this forum. He told me the only place where the grounds and neutrals need to be separated by code is in the main panel. He told me to put another bar in the main panel that would be grounded to the box and move all my grounds to that and then move the ground wire to that bar. The neutrals should be isolated and not connected to anything.

He said after that, that the grounds and neutrals can be all on the same bars. I then ran my idea about changing my barn from being 240 to 120 so i'd only have one hot. one 2 gauge would be hot, one 2 gauge would be neutral and the 4 gauge would be ground. He said that would be fine as long as I tape the ground with green tape and the neutral with white... then it's code.

The only thing he pointed out that breaks code in my main box is that the wires running from the main box to the first sub panel, the wires aren't in conduit... and code states it needs to be in that. Which that will be an easy and cheap fix.

But the one thing I haven't gotten an answer from him on yet is, if grounds and neutrals are ok to be one and the same after the main box, then why bother running a ground and neutral from the barn to the house? Both wires will be running from the same bar in the barn to the same barn in the house... so they're just a duplicate wire. The only thing this confirms is I need to bond the neutral and grounds in the barn.
Wow! What school does he work at so I can make sure not to send my kids there!?!

At the main panel providing that the power coming into the panel isn't interrupted by a service cut-off switch is the only place where the grounds and neutrals CAN be connected, downstream of there in the situation of a subpanel they have to be separated. The reason for separating them in a subpanel situation is that power on the neutral conductor would energize the ground, before it gets back to the main panel and onto the transformer.

Don't take the maintenance guys word for it, or ours for that matter, look it up yourself on the national electrical code website, and find you answer.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #85
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


I think if I was an electrical inspector in your town, I would quickly wind up here...



I give up!
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:30 PM   #86
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


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Originally Posted by dorlow View Post
So, I talked to the head maintenance guy yesterday at a school I work at. He's a licensed electrician and does all of the school's electrical work. They pass their inspections, so I think he knows what he's talking about. I showed him the pictures in this forum. He told me the only place where the grounds and neutrals need to be separated by code is in the main panel. He told me to put another bar in the main panel that would be grounded to the box and move all my grounds to that and then move the ground wire to that bar. The neutrals should be isolated and not connected to anything.

He said after that, that the grounds and neutrals can be all on the same bars. I then ran my idea about changing my barn from being 240 to 120 so i'd only have one hot. one 2 gauge would be hot, one 2 gauge would be neutral and the 4 gauge would be ground. He said that would be fine as long as I tape the ground with green tape and the neutral with white... then it's code.

The only thing he pointed out that breaks code in my main box is that the wires running from the main box to the first sub panel, the wires aren't in conduit... and code states it needs to be in that. Which that will be an easy and cheap fix.
I think he won't be able to produce his electrical license if you ask to see it ...

His advice is some of the most dangerous advice I have ever seen posted on a forum. What he told you will prevent any circuit breaker from tripping on ground fault and thereby posing a huge electrocution hazard.

If this guy works in a school as an electrician he really does need his work inspected. Obviously it never has been or it could not possibly pass inspection. He doesn't even understand the basics of a safe installation for installing a sub panel.

Quote:
But the one thing I haven't gotten an answer from him on yet is, if grounds and neutrals are ok to be one and the same after the main box, then why bother running a ground and neutral from the barn to the house? Both wires will be running from the same bar in the barn to the same barn in the house... so they're just a duplicate wire. The only thing this confirms is I need to bond the neutral and grounds in the barn.
Hmmmmm I wonder why he couldn't answer that ???

NO !! it confirms you want to bond neutral and ground at the main panel (service equipment) and NOT bond them at the barn panel or any panel downstream of the service equipment.

Stop listening to this idiot your going to get yourself injured or worse.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:30 PM   #87
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


Dorlow.....show the maintenance guy my post.....He's 100% wrong about the neutrals and grounds being seperated in the main panel.
I figured you would keep asking around until you found somebody who was as ill informed as you. Looks like you found him. Why do you keep coming back when you don't listen to what we say or care about doing it properly?
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:54 PM   #88
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


I do thank everyone for their input. I have 3 electricians I know personally and they all contradict what everyone is stating in this forum thread. It's not that I found 50 local electricians and decided to ignore all but the 3 that said what I wanted to hear. I don't understand why everyone on this forum is telling me contradicts what my 3 local guys say.

When I was talking to the school maintenance guy, I told him what everyone was saying on this forum and he said he just had a similar hookup and he hooked it up like he told me to change mine and passed his inspection with no flags.


So it's hard for me that doesn't know the right way to do it when I have 30 people I don't know and don't know their qualifications and for all I know are some kids in the basement giving me advice where the guys I'm talking to all have high paying jobs and are very well education.


Now I know that all of you aren't just kids sitting in your parents basement. I'm sure most of you know this stuff almost as well, as well, or more than my local guys.... But it's hard to know to trust 30 people that I can't see or 3 people that I know. So that's the conundrum I'm in.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:57 PM   #89
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


So trust no one and look it up yourself like I suggested.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:00 PM   #90
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Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right


Don't take the maintenance guys word for it, or ours for that matter, look it up yourself on the national electrical code website, and find you answer.

Best advice so far!!
You can find the NEC online and read it yourself.

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