Need To Install A Sub Panel! - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-09-2009, 11:09 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Exclamation

Need to Install a Sub panel!


Hi,
i bought my first home about 6 months ago and it just happened to have a 10' x 20' "shed" (more like a small studio, carpet and everything) in the backyard. the power had been removed completely before the purchase because it wasn't permitted. Now to the fun part, I want to run a sub panel in the shed and turn this room into a small music rehearsal studio. i just want 4, 30 amp breakers, 1 will be for lighting, 1 for an AC unit, the other 2 will have 6 outlets on each. The location of the shed is about 75 feet away from the main panel which is outside of the garage, so fortunate, on the opposite end of the property. What advice can someone give me to make sure I don't burn the house down or the shed?

I came up on some wire, 10 GA white and black, and 14 green. will this work?
Will the distance from the main to the sub require that i use aluminum?

Any advice i can get on this will be great!

Thanks.

Advertisement

dPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 11:23 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


Where are you located?
In the US branch circuits are 15a & 20a
What size AC, what power requirements ?
Are you going to bury this run?
You need it 18" deep for grey PVC conduit
You alse need grounding rods at the detached shed

Advertisement

Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:22 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,510
Rewards Points: 2,008
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


This the most often asked question on this forum by far "how to install a sub panel". Above, see the search function and search "sub panels", "unattached structures" "Wire to shed" those types of keywords. You will be able to get everything and more this way. You will be an expert in no time. If you have any further questions, just let us know.
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:38 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


Scuba Dave, I'm in California, the outlets will be 15a, the breakers will be 30 amps due to multiple items running at a couple amps each. I'm running a few amplifiers and speakers, I've already done the math on it and know it'll be fine with what I'm looking for. It'll be 120v, I've also started the trench myself, saving a few bucks but damn am i tired. I'll keep an eye out for the grounding rods, thanks.

JV thanks for the heads up, I now see what you're talking about, I will gather up anything I can't find and let you know, so far so good though.

Thanks again.
dPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:44 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


You can't install a 30a breaker & a 15a or a 20a outlet
Doesn't meet code & is not safe
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:47 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


I'm running 6, 15a outlets on 1 30a breaker.
dPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:48 PM   #7
Wire Chewer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,221
Rewards Points: 2,020
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


There's very little reason to have more then 20.

If you have equipment that needs 30 it will probably have a specialized plug or need to be wired directly.
Red Squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:50 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dPride View Post
I'm running 6, 15a outlets on 1 30a breaker.
It does not work that way
You would need outlets capable of handling 30a
These are special outlets that take a special plug

You need 20a breaker, 12g wire & either 20a outlets OR 15a outlets that are rated for 20a pass thru

You can't do a 30a breaker with 15a outlets PERIOD
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 12:53 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


So if i have 12 pieces of equipment that each use 2amps, that would be 24 total, that's not how its calculated?
dPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 01:03 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


No
You start with your load...24a
That means you need (2) circuits - not one
Normal household branch circuits are either 15a or 20a
Special circuits can be more - I have a 24,000BTU AC that needs 10g wire, 30a 240v breaker & a special 30a outlet
So you need to split this into (2) circuits IF you expect this all to be running at the same time

I usually only run 20a circuits for outlets, 12g wire
You balance the loads across the circuits
You don't add them up to see what size breaker you need

Once you have the loads you then decide on breaker & wire
12g is good for up to 20a load = 2400 watts
14g is good for up to 15a load = 1800 watts

Usually do lights - 14g & 15a breaker
But if you are going to buy a roll of wire it might be cheaper to just buy all 12g

The total Load +spare power = less then the main breaker for the sub panel
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 01:04 PM   #11
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,306
Rewards Points: 2,190
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


Outlets are typically daisy chained, meaning the power to first outlet in the chain feeds the second outlet off of load screws on the first outlet. Similarly, the second outlet feeds the third, and so on down the line.

In your case, if each outlet of the 12 had 2A on it, you would indeed draw a total of 24A, and that would be the load on the wire to the first outlet. The problem is that you need to protect the wire to the outlets, so if you use #12 wire (typical), the wire is rated for a maximum of 20A, so you would protect the wire with a 20A breaker. So when you hit the 20A maximum on the circuit, you would blow the breaker.

If you used #10 wire to your outlets, you could indeed carry 30A, and you could install a 30A breaker in the panel. However, you would need to use special 30A outlets with a different type of plug than normal, and none of your amplifiers would plug in.

So the solution is to wire standard 20A outlets, limiting the number of outlets on a single 20A breaker to keep the total load below 20A. Meaning if you expect to pull say 2A per outlet, limit each run to perhaps 6 outlets per breaker, and add a second breaker for another run of 6 outlets. This way you use standard outlets, 12 gage wire, and one 20A breaker per run.
Daniel Holzman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 02:07 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


Wow, thank you guys for your help, i know an "electrician" whos losing a job now.good thing i havent bought everything yet.

Again, thank you!
dPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 02:10 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


Just check your amps & everything
Make sure they don't have a special plug that needs a 30a outlet
In that case you would need 10g wire & a 30a rated outlet
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 02:40 PM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


As you offered, you should just go ahead and burn your house down and save the labor and expense.....


Little friday humor. good advice about searching panel installation code. Cant run outlets by code over 20 amps and thus 12 ga wire. Otherwise you will burn the shed down
fisherman2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 04:52 PM   #15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need to Install a Sub panel!


I got a new question, for the 2 breakers that im going to run for the outlets, can i run them through one conduit?

Also, since one outlet actually has two sockets, it would be 4amps per outlet, so i should run 5 outlets on each breaker, or could i run 6 outlets per 20amp breaker? itd be nice to have a couple extra outlets to charge my phone or something.

Advertisement

dPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electrical , music , studio , sub panel


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old House Rewire finnimus Electrical 15 05-13-2011 11:39 PM
Panel Replacement/Upgrade 400 Amp AndrewF Electrical 42 01-07-2009 11:47 PM
New meter panel tomreva Electrical 3 01-08-2008 04:56 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts