need help wiring 3-way/pilot

jules4

I have a water pump at the cottage that I want to control with two 3-way switches: a regular 3-way in the basement next to the pump, and a 3-way with a pilot light upstairs. (See previous thread for explanation of why: 3-ways with one pilot)

With some assistance from here I worked out the wiring diagram shown in 1st pic.

The device I ordered (Leviton 5246) came with the wiring diagram shown in the 2nd pic.

However, I don’t want the line from the panel feeding into the piloted switch, I want to feed it into the non-piloted switch in the basement as in the diagram in the 1st pic.

The problem is I can’t figure out how to wire the 5246 to make it match the layout in the 1st pic. The 3rd pic shows the current layout and the various terminal/wire combinations I’ve tried, all of which resulted in the pilot light being on regardless of the switch position (after the first two failed I just tried some random combinations out of frustration). (I didn’t think to test whether the pump was on.)

Is there a way to connect this switch so that it works using my current wiring, or do I need to rewire things so that the panel feeds into the piloted switch (as in 2nd pic)?

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Billy_Bob

Either the pump hot (black) or the panel hot (black) must feed into the piloted switch. (Along with the two "runners")

Edit: Actually it must be the pump black for the light to work...

How many wires do you have running to the piloted switch location? And are these running from the basement?

I would guess you currently have 3.

joed

I believe your first two options are correct. Swapping the travellers(T1 T2) does change the three way function.
Does the pump actually go on and off properly?
Maybe the other three way is wired wrong?

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gregzoll

Already discussed on here previously. Wiring diagram for three-way switches with pilot light

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jules4

Having the pump hot connected to the piloted switch is what I'd like to have.

I currently have 4 conductors running from the box in the basement to the upstairs box (H, N, T1 and T2).


I believed one of those 1st two combinations would be correct too; hence the frustration.

Since I couldn't get the piloted switch to work I tried putting in a standard 3-way upstairs (just capped the neutral), and that set up worked perfectly - both upstairs and basement switches turned the pump on and off - so I assume the basement switch is wired correctly.

As a last resort I'll rearrange things so that it matches Leviton's diagram (with the panel feeding into the piloted switch), but I'd really like to figure out why it won't work the way I'm trying to do it.

I did read through that thread, but I couldn't figure out the diagram that the OP said provided the solution - but if this diagram actually does provide the answer I'll put a bit more effort into understanding it.

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Billy_Bob

The only thing I can think of would be to check the basement 3-way to be sure the hot is connected to the common on that switch.

Then what is the other end of the pilot light connected to [internally] in the Leviton pilot light switch? C?

jules4

It is.

I'm assuming C, but I have no idea - I haven't been able to find a diagram of the internal circuitry (and at $27 a piece I'm not about to dissect one).

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Billy_Bob

Also double check that the wire you are connecting to the pilot is in fact a neutral and not a hot!

If that was a hot instead of a neutral, then that might explain why the pilot would always be on...

Billy_Bob

I couldn't find anything either!

The only clue is that jumper it mentions above to not remove.

jules4

It's definitely a neutral (assuming the neutral from the panel is in fact a neutral).

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Billy_Bob

If you are comfortable testing and know how to be safe, then you might do the following. If you are not experienced at this, then don't!

If you have a multimeter, disconnect the neutral upstairs from the switch, then measure that neutral to ground or another known neutral. You should not get 120 volts.

Next reconnect the neutral to the pilot light switch and connect the common (which should go to the hot on the pump motor). Do not connect the 2 traveler wires from the other switch (cap them). The pilot light should not be on.

joed

That's a good one. Is this pump 120 volts? If it is 240 volts then the white is NOT a neutral. How many breakers does it take turn it off?

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jules4

Very comfortable testing and have an excellent DMM (working on old solid state electronics is a hobby of mine). I don't have much experience with AC, but neutral to ground should just give me some small false voltage produced by my DMM, yes?

I assumed from the fact that putting a 3-way in place of the piloted switch allowed the pump to work perfectly showed that the wiring from the panel was good - but I can do these tests next time I'm down to the cottage to rule out any problem at the panel.

If it's the switch that you think might be the problem, I actually brought that up with me, so I could set it up here and test it.

It's an old 120 V pump for a shallow well (20 feet deep max), panel is a single 15 amp breaker. Measuring line hot to line neutral gives about 118V. So the only way it's not a neutral is if the wires were reversed at the panel (the place was completely rewired by a pro about 10 years ago, including the panel).

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jules4

After spending some more time pondering the confusing diagram that provided the answer in the thread gregzoll referenced, it looks like my intended layout (1st pic in OP) would place the piloted switch in the "load position," so it wouldn't need the "extra wire" mentioned in the confusing diagram.

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Billy_Bob

Correct. That is why I said it should not read 120 volts. And of course set your DMM to AC voltage.

So do that test on the neutral wire. (disconnected from switch.)

And the second test of just connecting the neutral to the pilot connection and the C connection (which should go to the black hot of the pump). Two runners not connected. (Pilot should not come on.)

Then based on those tests, that should tell us something.