Need Help Wiring 3-way/pilot - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2011, 05:46 PM   #1
Member
 
jules4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax NS, Canada
Posts: 262
Rewards Points: 250
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


I have a water pump at the cottage that I want to control with two 3-way switches: a regular 3-way in the basement next to the pump, and a 3-way with a pilot light upstairs. (See previous thread for explanation of why: 3-ways with one pilot)

With some assistance from here I worked out the wiring diagram shown in 1st pic.

The device I ordered (Leviton 5246) came with the wiring diagram shown in the 2nd pic.

However, I donít want the line from the panel feeding into the piloted switch, I want to feed it into the non-piloted switch in the basement as in the diagram in the 1st pic.

The problem is I canít figure out how to wire the 5246 to make it match the layout in the 1st pic. The 3rd pic shows the current layout and the various terminal/wire combinations Iíve tried, all of which resulted in the pilot light being on regardless of the switch position (after the first two failed I just tried some random combinations out of frustration). (I didnít think to test whether the pump was on.)

Is there a way to connect this switch so that it works using my current wiring, or do I need to rewire things so that the panel feeds into the piloted switch (as in 2nd pic)?
Attached Thumbnails
need help wiring 3-way/pilot-1_3waypilot.jpg   need help wiring 3-way/pilot-2_my-interpretation-diag.jpg   need help wiring 3-way/pilot-3_current-wiring.jpg  

Advertisement

__________________
Email: the to-do list anyone in the world can add items too.
jules4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 06:44 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Rewards Points: 500
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Either the pump hot (black) or the panel hot (black) must feed into the piloted switch. (Along with the two "runners")

Edit: Actually it must be the pump black for the light to work...

How many wires do you have running to the piloted switch location? And are these running from the basement?

I would guess you currently have 3.

Advertisement


Last edited by Billy_Bob; 10-20-2011 at 10:06 PM.
Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 07:32 PM   #3
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,379
Rewards Points: 3,552
Blog Entries: 4
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


I believe your first two options are correct. Swapping the travellers(T1 T2) does change the three way function.
Does the pump actually go on and off properly?
Maybe the other three way is wired wrong?
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 08:59 PM   #4
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,423
Rewards Points: 2,508
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Already discussed on here previously. Wiring diagram for three-way switches with pilot light
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 10:48 PM   #5
Member
 
jules4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax NS, Canada
Posts: 262
Rewards Points: 250
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
Either the pump hot (black) or the panel hot (black) must feed into the piloted switch. (Along with the two "runners")

Edit: Actually it must be the pump black for the light to work...

How many wires do you have running to the piloted switch location? And are these running from the basement?

I would guess you currently have 3.
Having the pump hot connected to the piloted switch is what I'd like to have.

I currently have 4 conductors running from the box in the basement to the upstairs box (H, N, T1 and T2).


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
I believe your first two options are correct. Swapping the travellers(T1 T2) does change the three way function.
Does the pump actually go on and off properly?
Maybe the other three way is wired wrong?
I believed one of those 1st two combinations would be correct too; hence the frustration.

Since I couldn't get the piloted switch to work I tried putting in a standard 3-way upstairs (just capped the neutral), and that set up worked perfectly - both upstairs and basement switches turned the pump on and off - so I assume the basement switch is wired correctly.

As a last resort I'll rearrange things so that it matches Leviton's diagram (with the panel feeding into the piloted switch), but I'd really like to figure out why it won't work the way I'm trying to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Already discussed on here previously. Wiring diagram for three-way switches with pilot light
I did read through that thread, but I couldn't figure out the diagram that the OP said provided the solution - but if this diagram actually does provide the answer I'll put a bit more effort into understanding it.
Attached Thumbnails
need help wiring 3-way/pilot-leviton-wiring-diagram-3-way-pilot-light.jpg  
__________________
Email: the to-do list anyone in the world can add items too.
jules4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 11:20 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Rewards Points: 500
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


The only thing I can think of would be to check the basement 3-way to be sure the hot is connected to the common on that switch.

Then what is the other end of the pilot light connected to [internally] in the Leviton pilot light switch? C?
Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 11:35 PM   #7
Member
 
jules4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax NS, Canada
Posts: 262
Rewards Points: 250
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
The only thing I can think of would be to check the basement 3-way to be sure the hot is connected to the common on that switch.
It is.

Quote:
Then what is the other end of the pilot light connected to [internally] in the Leviton pilot light switch? C?
I'm assuming C, but I have no idea - I haven't been able to find a diagram of the internal circuitry (and at $27 a piece I'm not about to dissect one).
__________________
Email: the to-do list anyone in the world can add items too.
jules4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 11:41 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Rewards Points: 500
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Also double check that the wire you are connecting to the pilot is in fact a neutral and not a hot!

If that was a hot instead of a neutral, then that might explain why the pilot would always be on...
Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2011, 11:45 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Rewards Points: 500
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Quote:
Originally Posted by jules4 View Post
...I haven't been able to find a diagram of the internal circuitry.
I couldn't find anything either!

The only clue is that jumper it mentions above to not remove.
Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 12:05 AM   #10
Member
 
jules4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax NS, Canada
Posts: 262
Rewards Points: 250
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
Also double check that the wire you are connecting to the pilot is in fact a neutral and not a hot!

If that was a hot instead of a neutral, then that might explain why the pilot would always be on...
It's definitely a neutral (assuming the neutral from the panel is in fact a neutral).
__________________
Email: the to-do list anyone in the world can add items too.
jules4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 12:34 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Rewards Points: 500
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


If you are comfortable testing and know how to be safe, then you might do the following. If you are not experienced at this, then don't!

If you have a multimeter, disconnect the neutral upstairs from the switch, then measure that neutral to ground or another known neutral. You should not get 120 volts.

Next reconnect the neutral to the pilot light switch and connect the common (which should go to the hot on the pump motor). Do not connect the 2 traveler wires from the other switch (cap them). The pilot light should not be on.
Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 08:49 AM   #12
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,379
Rewards Points: 3,552
Blog Entries: 4
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Quote:
Originally Posted by jules4 View Post
It's definitely a neutral (assuming the neutral from the panel is in fact a neutral).

That's a good one. Is this pump 120 volts? If it is 240 volts then the white is NOT a neutral. How many breakers does it take turn it off?
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 11:54 AM   #13
Member
 
jules4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax NS, Canada
Posts: 262
Rewards Points: 250
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
If you are comfortable testing and know how to be safe, then you might do the following. If you are not experienced at this, then don't!

If you have a multimeter, disconnect the neutral upstairs from the switch, then measure that neutral to ground or another known neutral. You should not get 120 volts.

Next reconnect the neutral to the pilot light switch and connect the common (which should go to the hot on the pump motor). Do not connect the 2 traveler wires from the other switch (cap them). The pilot light should not be on.
Very comfortable testing and have an excellent DMM (working on old solid state electronics is a hobby of mine). I don't have much experience with AC, but neutral to ground should just give me some small false voltage produced by my DMM, yes?

I assumed from the fact that putting a 3-way in place of the piloted switch allowed the pump to work perfectly showed that the wiring from the panel was good - but I can do these tests next time I'm down to the cottage to rule out any problem at the panel.

If it's the switch that you think might be the problem, I actually brought that up with me, so I could set it up here and test it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
That's a good one. Is this pump 120 volts? If it is 240 volts then the white is NOT a neutral. How many breakers does it take turn it off?
It's an old 120 V pump for a shallow well (20 feet deep max), panel is a single 15 amp breaker. Measuring line hot to line neutral gives about 118V. So the only way it's not a neutral is if the wires were reversed at the panel (the place was completely rewired by a pro about 10 years ago, including the panel).
__________________
Email: the to-do list anyone in the world can add items too.

Last edited by jules4; 10-21-2011 at 12:04 PM.
jules4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 12:28 PM   #14
Member
 
jules4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax NS, Canada
Posts: 262
Rewards Points: 250
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


After spending some more time pondering the confusing diagram that provided the answer in the thread gregzoll referenced, it looks like my intended layout (1st pic in OP) would place the piloted switch in the "load position," so it wouldn't need the "extra wire" mentioned in the confusing diagram.
__________________
Email: the to-do list anyone in the world can add items too.

Last edited by jules4; 10-21-2011 at 12:31 PM.
jules4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 12:38 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Rewards Points: 500
Default

need help wiring 3-way/pilot


Quote:
Originally Posted by jules4 View Post
Very comfortable testing and have an excellent DMM (working on old solid state electronics is a hobby of mine). I don't have much experience with AC, but neutral to ground should just give me some small false voltage produced by my DMM, yes?
Correct. That is why I said it should not read 120 volts. And of course set your DMM to AC voltage.

So do that test on the neutral wire. (disconnected from switch.)

And the second test of just connecting the neutral to the pilot connection and the C connection (which should go to the black hot of the pump). Two runners not connected. (Pilot should not come on.)

Then based on those tests, that should tell us something.

Advertisement

Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring diagram for three-way switches with pilot light SaxTeacher Electrical 34 09-15-2013 08:53 AM
Cloth Wiring - Replace? JessicaGus Electrical 9 09-23-2009 07:45 PM
electric wiring in house remodel wis_remod Electrical 6 04-02-2009 03:40 PM
New Home Wiring - Seeking Expert Advice Dirtrnr Electrical 3 02-10-2009 11:33 AM
Knob & Tube wiring - How concerned should we be? hotdiggitydog Electrical 6 04-11-2006 08:52 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts