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Old 06-07-2013, 06:57 AM   #16
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need help wiring


I see this is a little more complicated than origninaly thought.
Still all that would be needed is another wire between switch and outlet, there is a feed at the switch.

Is the switched outlet the closest to the switch?
If they are both on a common wall to another room, is it still the first outlet from switch.
Is this the only switched outlet?
Any ceiling light?

Pics help

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Old 06-07-2013, 09:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
I assume the switch and receptacle wiring was existing (you didn't install it, right?).

You will have to get a 3rd colored (Black or Red) wire between the receptacle and switch. How you'll go about doing that (if the wiring between is not in conduit) depends on your creativity. If it's cable, you'll have to fish the wire between the two.

Then, you'll need to find out which location contains the feed (Hot Black wire); the receptacle, or the Switch.

If you can do that, then we can continue.
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Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
One pair in one cable? Then you're working at the WRONG outlet.

The other end of that (switch loop) cable goes to a box where AT LEAST one other set black and white wires are; probably two sets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_in_rure View Post
The only way this setup would work the way you have described is if there is a wire junction somewhere besides these two boxes.
Where does your power feed come from if your only cable is a length of black, white, and ground between the switch and receptacle?
OP.... As you probably have figured out, someone prior to you has hacked this switch loop from a third source (hopefully a box and not a tap burried in the wall).

But... SirSparky, TT, and Kyle all agree that you have another box (recep or Jbox) involved here. Look around.. maybe a close by recep box or maybe a Jbox in the attic/basement

Even when you find it, depending what is occuring with it and it's location, you may/ or may not be able to get another hot to your subject receptical box to get your operating split recep.

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Old 06-07-2013, 09:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

Also note that it violates electrical code to use a dimmer to control a regular outlet....
I don't see where the OP asked about a dimmer?
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
I don't see where the OP asked about a dimmer?
Sir Sparky....I once saw a man walking his dog in Detroit...
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jhack836 View Post
I need to wire a outlet so half is always hot and other half is off the switch. I have it so the switch works but the other half is dead. what should I do. only black white and ground wires, thanks!
See if these diagrams help. The one on top shows power coming into the receptacle location. The one on the bottom shows power coming into the switch location.

grounds not shown for ease of drawing
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need help wiring-incom-out-sw-1-2-out-hot.jpg   need help wiring-sw-sw-out.jpg  
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:50 AM   #21
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And dont forget to break the tab on the receptacle.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #22
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JHack.... Note that Hammerline has shown you what you should have, and will certainly be beneficial in fixing things for you.

But note, than in neither of his correctly wired circuts, are there only 1 white and 1 black, in both boxes. (Which you have sworn and subscribed to be your case).

That's why there has to be another box involved.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:47 AM   #23
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I see this as a junction box somewhere.
no way would the receptacle work with just a black/white wire from a switch with just a black/white wire.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
I don't see where the OP asked about a dimmer?
True. But quite often someone trying to switch just one socket in an outlet is doing so for a table lamp or the like. Which naturally leads to thinking it'd be OK to swap in a dimmer, since it's just a light plugged into it. Until someone else comes along and plugs an appliance into it later.

Sometimes it's good to get the rest of the details out there to try and head off further nonsense.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99

True. But quite often someone trying to switch just one socket in an outlet is doing so for a table lamp or the like. Which naturally leads to thinking it'd be OK to swap in a dimmer, since it's just a light plugged into it. Until someone else comes along and plugs an appliance into it later.

Sometimes it's good to get the rest of the details out there to try and head off further nonsense.
Yeah we wouldn't want any "bright ideas"....
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:18 PM   #26
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yup I swear with only the black and white in each. I did find a outlet in between both of them. t he switch is for the basement and the outlet is at the bottom of the stairs. there is a outlet on the other side of the wall (living room side) so im guessing somehow that is the junction point. looks like the armored cable goes in that box 4 times....
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:52 PM   #27
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As long as you understand the diagrams it is now up to you to figure out how the wiring is in your domicile.

Dont pay too much attention to the color of the insulation on the wire. Electricity does not care what color the insulation is.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerlane View Post
As long as you understand the diagrams it is now up to you to figure out how the wiring is in your domicile.

Dont pay too much attention to the color of the insulation on the wire. Electricity does not care what color the insulation is.

And some of Hammers red lines are not really a third line per se, but just a pigtail off the hot coming in.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:31 PM   #29
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Regarding both photos in post #20 and the incoming power, I should of clarified that must be a multi-wire branch circuit (MWBC).

The diagram on the left below is the bottom photo in post #20

That could be easily remedied by the photo on the right below and no MWBC would be needed.
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Last edited by hammerlane; 06-07-2013 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:34 PM   #30
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so basically the only way to do what I want to do is to add a 3rd wire to the outlet? correct?

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