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-   -   Need help rigging 30 amp (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/need-help-rigging-30-amp-97412/)

CZ DIY 03-06-2011 12:55 PM

Need help rigging 30 amp
 
So.... I have a jacuzzi shower unit that is rated at 3000 watts / 27.3 amps. But the romex is run and drywall/paint finished. No way can i run 100' of 10awg now.

But I do have two runs of 12awg available. I know its not code. So this will be rigging. Is it possible to pair up the two 12awg to a single 30 amp outlet?

CZ DIY 03-06-2011 01:00 PM

Btw, each 12awg is connected to a 20 amp gfci breaker.

Jim Port 03-06-2011 01:03 PM

With no way to run a new cable as you stated you will not be using the tub. Sorry.

You cannot parallel conductors that small.

CZ DIY 03-06-2011 01:11 PM

Thanks. There is no turning back on the tub either. I'll just use it at 20 amp and reset the breaker whenever it fails.

SD515 03-06-2011 01:11 PM

You're right...it's not code. And I don't think any electrician on this site would advise that you do what you propose. Our advise is to do it safely and correctly, and that means installing the correct wire gauge/branch circuit material as recommended by the manufacturer.

CZ DIY 03-06-2011 01:27 PM

How about this rig job? Replace the two 20 amp gfci's with a single 20 amp 2-pole gfci. Then have two 20 amp gfci outlets.

Then splice two plugs onto the tubs power cord and plug each into it's own outlet?

I know it's wrong. Just asking for help choosing the least wrong of all the wrong choices.

SD515 03-06-2011 01:37 PM

Sorry...wrong is still wrong. 1% wrong is just as bad as 100% wrong.

Jim Port 03-06-2011 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD515 (Post 603694)
Sorry...wrong is still wrong. 1% wrong is just as bad as 100% wrong.

Isn't one wronger? :no:

This is said in jest. I in no way advocate trying to circumvent safety.

Speedy Petey 03-06-2011 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZ DIY (Post 603684)
How about this rig job? Replace the two 20 amp gfci's with a single 20 amp 2-pole gfci. Then have two 20 amp gfci outlets.

Then splice two plugs onto the tubs power cord and plug each into it's own outlet?

I know it's wrong. Just asking for help choosing the least wrong of all the wrong choices.

To even begin to help you hack something like this up is beyond irresponsible. ESPECIALLY since this is for a shower/tub.

Do you even realize what is at stake?????? :icon_rolleyes:


WHY in the world would something rated at 3000 watts be made to run at 120V??? Can you exchange the steam unit alone?

kbsparky 03-06-2011 04:19 PM

Wire up one of your #12 cables for 240 Volts. Then install a 3 kVA 240x120 transformer, and change it back to 120 Volts at the shower connection. Problem solved.

Saturday Cowboy 03-06-2011 09:04 PM

Why is it impossible to run new wire???!!?? It can be done with little or no drywall damage. What is the nature of the house construction and where is the panel?

Hassan Hashemi 03-06-2011 09:17 PM

Paralleing Conductors
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CZ DIY (Post 603654)
So.... I have a jacuzzi shower unit that is rated at 3000 watts / 27.3 amps. But the romex is run and drywall/paint finished. No way can i run 100' of 10awg now.

But I do have two runs of 12awg available. I know its not code. So this will be rigging. Is it possible to pair up the two 12awg to a single 30 amp outlet?

You can do parallel conductors depending local codes, it is not recommended as you can not guarantee that under a fault(short) they maintain being connected under the terminals. In case that you can assure a solid terminals connection and with no breaks in the path along with assuring equal sizes and lengths of conductors to be parallel.
I highly recommend you to even go to size 8 AWG to assure a good life for your cable for long time trouble free usage.
I do not recommend at all to use parallel runs of cables.
If it is attended, short cycles usages with parallel conductor requirements by local codes such as equal length, sizes etc. and the fact that you would guarantee no breakage of system under load at terminals or between, then I believe you could use. Make sure that the cable is not run in a combustible area either.
Use a timer that is good and operative could guarantee disconnection after some time.

Speedy Petey 03-06-2011 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hassan Hashemi (Post 604055)
You can do parallel conductors depending local codes, it is not recommended as you can not guarantee that under a fault(short) they maintain being connected under the terminals. In case that you can assure a solid terminals connection and with no breaks in the path along with assuring equal sizes and lengths of conductors to be parallel.
I highly recommend you to even go to size 8 AWG to assure a good life for your cable for long time trouble free usage.
I do not recommend at all to use parallel runs of cables.
If it is attended, short cycles usages with parallel conductor requirements by local codes such as equal length, sizes etc. and the fact that you would guarantee no breakage of system under load at terminals or between, then I believe you could use. Make sure that the cable is not run in a combustible area either.
Use a timer that is good and operative could guarantee disconnection after some time.

What codes are you referring to??? Not anything in the US I can say. Paralleling #12 is not legal or safe in ANY installation I can think of.

In one breath you say it can be done, then you say you would never recommend it, then you go on to explain how it can be done.
What is your story???

Jim Port 03-06-2011 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hassan Hashemi (Post 604055)
You can do parallel conductors depending local codes, it is not recommended as you can not guarantee that under a fault(short) they maintain being connected under the terminals. In case that you can assure a solid terminals connection and with no breaks in the path along with assuring equal sizes and lengths of conductors to be parallel.
I highly recommend you to even go to size 8 AWG to assure a good life for your cable for long time trouble free usage.
I do not recommend at all to use parallel runs of cables.
If it is attended, short cycles usages with parallel conductor requirements by local codes such as equal length, sizes etc. and the fact that you would guarantee no breakage of system under load at terminals or between, then I believe you could use. Make sure that the cable is not run in a combustible area either.
Use a timer that is good and operative could guarantee disconnection after some time.

Under the NEC you cannot parallel conductors smaller than 1/0. The OP has conductors much smaller than 1/0 so paralleling is definitely out.

mpoulton 03-07-2011 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZ DIY (Post 603684)
Then splice two plugs onto the tubs power cord and plug each into it's own outlet?

Um, no. First, that will instantly trip both GFCIs (any parallel combination of GFCIs will trip immediately on applying a load). Second, if either plug comes loose, the prongs would be hot. Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. Don't.

I did something similar once with three plugs, one for each phase on a 3-phase system. That was in a high-voltage physics lab with 12,000-volt transformers, and it was still a dangerously bad idea.

Quote:

I know it's wrong. Just asking for help choosing the least wrong of all the wrong choices.
In this case, it is virtually certain that doing it right is easier than screwing it up. Fish the new wire through the attic.


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