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rarquilla 11-19-2008 02:29 PM

Need help on Electric range wiring
 
I purchased a house that the stove did not get very hot. I identified that the stove is ok but I believe the house wiring to the range is wrong. The plug that comes out is a 3 wire plug but my house only has a black and white wire and a small guage copper wire. can somebody help me?

Sliver 11-19-2008 04:52 PM

Check on the stove for the required voltage, most likely it will need 240v. having a black and white wire means that there is only 120v at the outlet. The only way to fix this will be to make a new run to the outlet with a 3 wire (black, red, white, ground) to that outlet.

rarquilla 11-19-2008 05:36 PM

Thank you very much for your time. I agree and I will ASAP. My only issue on that is the home is a 1983 and people have been using stoves since then. Why is there a problem now? I just purchased the home! The previous owner had to have the same problem.

What are your thoughts?

jerryh3 11-19-2008 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliver (Post 187332)
Check on the stove for the required voltage, most likely it will need 240v. having a black and white wire means that there is only 120v at the outlet. The only way to fix this will be to make a new run to the outlet with a 3 wire (black, red, white, ground) to that outlet.

Please know what you're talking about before giving advice. They number of wires at a box does NOT determine the voltage. It's possible to have 240V with two(black/white) conductors. Three conductors will give a 240/120 outlet.

rarquilla,
Can you post the model of the stove and maybe a picture of the cord and outlet. Also, how did you identify the stove as being "ok?"

rjniles 11-19-2008 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rarquilla (Post 187297)
I purchased a house that the stove did not get very hot. I identified that the stove is ok but I believe the house wiring to the range is wrong. The plug that comes out is a 3 wire plug but my house only has a black and white wire and a small guage copper wire. can somebody help me?

I would suspect that you have 220 on the BK ,Wh and the previous owner had a stove that required 220 only. New stoves require 220 and 110. The only legit way to get that is rewire with 3 wire cable (3 insulated conductors and a bare ground) connected to a 4 pin receptical and a 4 wire pigtail (cord with plug) on the stove.. Somebody will try to tell you can use that bare ground for a neutral - DO NOT DO IT!

rarquilla 11-19-2008 06:16 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Thank You! The only information on the stove after checking very closely even with the back off only shows it being a GE Spectra Electric. (Coil Heating Elements. As far as the checks on the stove I checked line voltage out of the plug and to the connections on the stove. On the heat control I am getting 120V line on all H1 and H2 tabs for each control which led me back to the plug because I was told I need 240 on H1 and H2. The Ohms rating was 20-100 which the rating showed normal. The stove just wont get red hot.

Stubbie 11-19-2008 07:09 PM

This is a 10-50R range outlet but it is wired incorrectly. If the supply wiring is bringing a 120/240 or 120 volt circuit to the range plug you have an extremely dangerous situation.

You need to go to the breaker panel and turn this thing off. You should be turning off a double pole breaker. Come back and tell us if the breaker is a Double pole or a single pole, if you can test the receptacle for voltage... black to white... then black to bare... and white to bare. Give us the voltage reading for each test. If you turned a single pole breaker off you may or may not have power removed from that receptacle thats why I want you to test it. Only one of the wires at the receptacle is connected correctly.

jerryh3 11-19-2008 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie (Post 187381)
This is a 10-30R range outlet but it is wired incorrectly. If the supply wiring is bringing a 120/240 or 120 volt circuit to the range plug you have an extremely dangerous situation.

You need to go to the breaker panel and turn this thing off. You should be turning off a double pole breaker. Come back and tell us if the breaker is a Double pole or a single pole, if you can test the receptacle for voltage... black to white... then black to bare... and white to bare. Give us the voltage reading for each test. If you turned a single pole breaker off you may or may not have power removed from that receptacle thats why I want you to test it. Only one of those wires is connected correctly.

How is that even working at all? If it's wired like I think it is, it's putting 240V across the X and W terminals of the outlet. No matter how it's hooked up at the breaker, it would still need to be re-run with 6/3 for a safe install.

frenchelectrican 11-19-2008 07:34 PM

Jerry.,

That connection you see on the photo that is very dangerous connection and what more is that I belive the OP have plastic junction box that work as floating netural and the ground { bare } and White { that can be used either netural or hot conductor depending on type of cable } is reversed and I am suprised it did not blow the breaker or anyone get shocked.

To OP.,

The only legit way is get that exsting white conductor reloacted and double check the breaker box and follow that conductor if you have bare conductor landed in netural or ground bussbar and White conductor on netual bussbar you will only get 120 volt no question asked,.

But if the white conductor is actally on the two pole breaker then you have serious issue there and the range recpectle need to be addressed and check the conductor if any hidden spice or junction box { I do see it happend from time to time }

Merci,Marc

Stubbie 11-19-2008 07:39 PM

Yes I'm getting to that but I would like to know what the voltages are to determine if the thing is wired 240 or 120 or what. If it is wired 120 this would explain why it is only getting warm. If the white is the grounded leg of a 120 volt circuit it would work at 120 volts assuming the hot wire that is connected correctly is the leg the manufacturer tapped for the 120 volt stuff.

And yes the cable is not the correct cable for the job however if it was just 240 he would not have a working stove but 240 volts on his 120 volt circuits and he would have lots of issues.

frenchelectrican 11-19-2008 07:44 PM

The other thing suprised me is that with 3 conductor cord running to the stove when I was looking at termail block and to my suprised unless the photo play trick on me but where is the bonding strap or jumper wire is ?

Merci,Marc

jerryh3 11-19-2008 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie (Post 187395)
Yes I'm getting to that but I would like to know what the voltages are to determine if the thing is wired 240 or 120 or what. If it is wired 120 this would explain why it is only getting warm. If the white is the grounded leg of a 120 volt circuit it would work at 120 volts assuming the hot wire that is connected correctly is the leg the manufacturer tapped for the 120 volt stuff.

And yes the cable is not the correct cable for the job however if it was just 240 he would not have a working stove but 240 volts on his 120 volt circuits and he would have lots of issues.

Agreed. I'm also curious to see what the voltage readings are across all of wires. I wonder if some hack did some "work" before the house was sold.

rarquilla 11-19-2008 09:57 PM

After doing some voltage tests here are the numbers. White to Red is 240. White to Black is 120. Red to Black is 120. As to the question on the jumper, there is none there.

Hope this helps!
Thank you very much for all of your time...

rgsgww 11-19-2008 10:09 PM

Woah, you NEED to get that fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if you damaged your range! Those hots are wired wrong, not to mention the FIRE hazard...

Depending on the size of breaker, your supposed to run #/3 wire plus ground to your location (where # is conductor size in awg) if you have a 120/240 range (like most)

Stubbie 11-19-2008 10:17 PM

I'm not sure what to tell you other than whoever wired that receptacle was retarded.

So heres the deal 3 wire cables like you have are not acceptable for a range circuit. It is possible that you might contact your codes department and have an inspector stop by and see if he will give you an exception to use that bare copper as your neutral. The black and whites would be hot wires if and only if they allow it. Otherwise your going to have to run a new 4 wire cable that has a ground, neutral and 2 hots like Jerry mentioned. A 6/3 awg with ground would work. This cable if nm-b style will have a black and red for hots a white for neutral and a bare for ground. You will connect it to a 50 amp double breaker. You need to get a 50 amp 4 wire range cord. You need to make sure there is no bond to the metal frame from the neutral terminal of the range. You need a 14-50P range plug.

If they allow this cable that is existing (and I doubt they will) you need to get a bond wire connected from the center terminal of the range terminal block to the metal frame. You need to make sure your double pole breaker is 40 amps because that is what that range cord you have is rated for and you need to make sure you have at least 8 awg wiring existing.

Lastly you need to know what your doing or you almost certainly will screw this up.


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