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Old 09-20-2007, 06:57 PM   #16
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


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Originally Posted by I_have_questions View Post
Can't find that number for you, Marc, sorry.

One more question, if the panel is a "15", is it normal that the switches all have "20" on them? It's on the top part of each switch.

ok ,, if you see the breaker labled say " 15 " that mean the breaker is rated for 15 amp and if you see the label say " 20 " that mean 20 amp the same with other size as well.
the amprating is stamped on the handle so you cant miss that.

i did look at the photo and i think you have the 2040 box which it mean 20 space full size and 40 duplex or twin breaker but if you can take the photo of the whole box then i can able tell ya real quick

Merci , Marc

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Old 09-20-2007, 07:11 PM   #17
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


Je habite de Kansas..... I live in Kansas...Ok got it.....Now, how do I say "Where do I get a beer"....thanks Marc thats pretty cool---

Hey ! ! I think you need to give me some more lessons. I just tried my new French abilities on this cute little french lady down the street and she slapped the morning dew off me.

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Old 09-20-2007, 09:14 PM   #18
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


Here's a pic of the whole panel. BTW, I checked all switches, and they show "20", with the exception of the two new ones that show "15". One is for the pool motor, and the other is for an outside plug. (What is up with that black burn mark??)

Last edited by I_have_questions; 09-20-2007 at 09:46 PM. Reason: add info
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:21 AM   #19
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


Ok now i can see more clear that is 30 space box.

you have room to add a new circuit there but that type of box that look " new " that breaker style that been there at least 30 years because i can tell what type of wire it goes in the box.

it will be wise to have other electrican to come out and run new fridge circuit they can add on to that box but IMO without the paper on the inside of breaker box door that miss the key info in there but some time they will say 30/40 on it anyway that the main moot point there and it really a wise idea to mark down all the circuits where they run because someday it will really save your rearend [ you know what i mean ] .

right now i did count the the breaker total count it came up with 38 "handles" note that the double poles are count as 2

but with some breaker with the tie in what you see with red or white wire between two breakers some area it will raise red flag in some place and that have to get fix up to the code but really my best advise to you is have a local electrician in your area do the proper way and i am sure that electrician will advise the sisuation if that allowed in the code

for the burn mark that is pretty instering mistery there unless something shorted out behind the panel cover which i doubt

i noted the fuse box on the right side of the breaker box that is pretty odd for this set up anyway a good electrician can check out the system and see where it go from there

typcally most 200 amp box useally come in either 30 or 40/42 space box with main breaker the new box will take far less room than what you have with it and the main breaker inside the box you dont have to worry about 200 amp fuse [ not very many big box store will stock this size fuse btw ]

if you have more question let us know
Merci , Marc
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:24 AM   #20
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


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Je habite de Kansas..... I live in Kansas...Ok got it.....Now, how do I say "Where do I get a beer"....thanks Marc thats pretty cool---

Hey ! ! I think you need to give me some more lessons. I just tried my new French abilities on this cute little french lady down the street and she slapped the morning dew off me.

Stubbie

Ok you ask for it ,, LOL

here it is "" Où je peux obtenir la bière ? ""
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:03 AM   #21
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


Ok that's great I'll try it next time I need it up your way or Canada. But if I get slapped again I'm coming to look for ya.....


Marc.... I'm glad you knew something about that panel cause I'm unfamiliar with it. But what really got me with this is the panel next to the breaker panelboard. If my memory serves me the last time I saw something like that in a home it was a manual service rated transfer switch. Had a diesel generator for emergency standby power. Just a guess though.

Do you know what that black wire is on the left of the panel? I ask because I just ran across some of this stuff in a 1950'ish home just recently. No ground in it just two hot wires. It was going to an old outlet/receptacle that had this configuration ++ for the cord plug. Never seen it before.

Also this panel can take 60 circuits?? Is that right?

I agree he has 38 handles now... using those old style QOT's.

I'm scratchin my head a little on this one. It reminds me of a commercial column panelboard but its too wide.

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Old 09-21-2007, 02:57 AM   #22
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Subbie the panel on left side is the Main fuse they are pretty big arse box and they have 200 amp run of mill fuses and that breaker box is main lug box that why they put the main fuse in the left side and you dont see not too many 200 fused disconnect switch for resdentail useage.

i just have one changed very simuair to this set up and one of fuse clip did got just about red hot due loose connection and replaced with 200 amp breaker box and slove all the issuse with it.

60 circuits ?? i will say insane but very instering twist that our great northen guys allready have bigger box than us they have up to 84 yeah not a misprint 84 space box just like two 42's but all in one.

i think i am not sure but i heard somewhere but i dont have the dricet source but they say starting in 08 code cycle they will take the 42 limit off but the catch is that some state will try delay this [ the reason why change because of AFCI ]

stubbie some of the older wire you descrbine is the early romax they did used the tw insluation mateals on that and yeah no ground that was instering and i did see alot of home with bootleg ground [ i will leave this to separted thread so we dont get way off the track for the OP]

but the instering thing with this breaker box it really suprised me i dont know how they can add that many cirucit in that small box.

yeah with non ctl QOT verison dont have a cam on the bottom of the breaker that why it can really load up many but IMO that is pretty messy when you have alot of empty slot it can be used.

the newer QO boxes on 20/30 and 20/40 verison they have a slot for it and it will be located on lower half of the bussbar area and also the QOT new style have slightly diffrnt shape so it will only go in cenrten spots as well

stubbie i know what you talking about commercal coloum panel board they are useally are bolt in type and they are 20 inch wide if i recall it right

Merci , Marc
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:22 AM   #23
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


Marc.... You have really been around!!! I figured that was most likely a fused disconnect but man it was hard for me to accept that in a residence! the handle for the blades inside sorta make you realize its fused but whew that is one big disconnect enclosure.

Thanks for all the detail I cut a piece of that black wire for my collections of antique electrical stuff. sorta reminds you of UF. And your right it is TW rated insulation.

thanks Marc


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Old 09-21-2007, 06:36 AM   #24
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I've actually never seen the box on the left open. I was told it was a main junction box.

The black wire on the side that Stubbie asked about are the two new ones, one for the pool motor, one for an outdoor plug. These are the two that I mentioned were the only '15' switches on this panel.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:28 AM   #25
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


Well I'm not familiar with that black cable if it was recently installed it needs to have three wires in it one of them a ground wire so you might want to look inside the outside outlet and make sure that stuff has a ground wire. Especially if it serves a pool motor. And it needs to be an insulated ground wire on the one going to the pool motor.

I see no reason to change out that panel.

Anyway lets get back to your dimming kitchen lights. Are these the only lights dimming in the house?

How bad is the dimming?

How long does it last .... several seconds, minutes or just briefly?

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Old 09-21-2007, 11:57 AM   #26
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


Stubbie...

Kansas ......population 237,....ooopppssss 239...young girl just had twins ....
GOD's country ...... GOD created Kansas ......
so there could be a place for the tornadoes to call home....

Take Care.....and button down the hatches....actually...button down everything....

Last edited by JGarth; 09-21-2007 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:17 PM   #27
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ok ,,, if the light dimmed breifly each time the mircowave oven go on or the refridgeator go on ?? or other hevey load go on like A/C or other hevey load using devices?

as Stubbie saying when the light stay dim for while etc ??

some area it may be normal to have light get dimmed very breifly due some electic motor start up or start up fast with hevey load like microwave


really there is no reason to replace the breaker box as long you dont go over 42 circuit limit but one issuse is the box the paper on the door it should have a marking and also the describiation what circuit where it goes like one breaker for light second breaker for kitchen third one for bedroom fourth for bathroom etc etc ,,, that should really help alot in case you need to shut off something for good reason like work on light switch need to fixed etc ,,

but there one thing i overlooked but i dont know if you feel confortable with this,, if you can remove the front cover and look on either side of inside of breaker box there will be a label as well ,.. i was not thinking for a min sorry about that some breaker box will do that as a " backup paper " or info

if you not confort just dont do it.

Merci, Marc
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:03 PM   #28
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Anyway lets get back to your dimming kitchen lights. Are these the only lights dimming in the house?

How bad is the dimming?

How long does it last .... several seconds, minutes or just briefly?

Stubbie
It's a half-second dimming. The fridge motor starts up, the lights in the kitchen dim for a split second then go back to normal.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:09 PM   #29
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


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really there is no reason to replace the breaker box as long you dont go over 42 circuit limit but one issuse is the box the paper on the door it should have a marking and also the describiation what circuit where it goes like one breaker for light second breaker for kitchen third one for bedroom fourth for bathroom etc etc ,,, that should really help alot in case you need to shut off something for good reason like work on light switch need to fixed etc ,,

but there one thing i overlooked but i dont know if you feel confortable with this,, if you can remove the front cover and look on either side of inside of breaker box there will be a label as well ,.. i was not thinking for a min sorry about that some breaker box will do that as a " backup paper " or info

if you not confort just dont do it.

Merci, Marc
Found the original paper, It shows: QO LOAD QO-30-40 120/240V AC. 225 APM. MAINS Series T2 1PH. 3W. S/N By the "Square D" company (in Canada).

Again, thanks so much for your help everyone.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:19 PM   #30
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Need to change my electrical panel? 2nd opinion needed


The fridge is on the same circuit with the kitchen light. It's load on the circuit when the compressor starts is dimming your light. Once it falls back to running amps after starting your lights get the voltage they need to go back to normal
This is caused by voltage drop when the compressor starts and requires a bunch of current breifly to get the compressor going. It's normal. to solve this just run a 20 amp circuit to the fridge and dedicate it.

Will this be hard to do in your case?

I'm leaving the panel to Marc he knows it better than I do in this case.


Stubbie

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Last edited by Stubbie; 09-21-2007 at 02:22 PM.
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