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Old 10-16-2007, 10:55 PM   #31
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Need brainstorming ideas on hiding a wire....


Sorry Andy, I had to step out for awhile, I see Househelper gave the code section. I don't have a problem with a line of sight disconnect but in this case I think it is prudent to just have the lock on the breaker. What I really think is goofy is a measly 18" cord on that heater. I found a picture of an installation on e-bay....they sell a bunch of these titans there. The installation manual is very brief and says use a professional for plumbing & electrical. Looks like more than 18" of pigtail to me. Notice they are using wires in conduit.


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Old 10-17-2007, 05:16 AM   #32
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Need brainstorming ideas on hiding a wire....


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Originally Posted by moneymgmt View Post
47 47: I called and asked: 1 electrical, 1 plumbing, and 1 mechanical for gas. I argued that they could all be lumped as "mechanical" and just buy one permit but they disagreed with me
Why would you be getting a permit for the gas on an electric water heater?
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Old 10-17-2007, 05:45 AM   #33
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HAHAHA...... not for this one, but I looked into a gas units as well.

Stubbie: What I really don't understand is why they put the cord below both of the water lines. Common sense tells me that the electrical out the top would be less likely to get wet. And regarding the conduit, I'm curious why in that picture they run conduit along the ceiling but not on the 2 feet from the unit to the junction. Where the cord comes out of the unit is threaded anyhow so I intended to run conduit from the unit to the junction, and then the junction will be wired through the wall to the panel (I have open studs right now).
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Old 10-17-2007, 12:49 PM   #34
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Need brainstorming ideas on hiding a wire....


I'm not sure why that is, or why they supply that cable pigtail. You can put that cable in conduit if you like. I suppose they want to make sure you dont foul up the wire size on installation or maybe to give some flexability for the connection location. There are special rules involved for placing cables in conduit in order to get the correct size conduit. I would much rather be able to bring my branch circuit to that titan directly and eliminate the JB. Could be a lot of reasons why they don't want you changing out that pigtail. Could be an insulation and terminal temperature issue they don't want you screwing up...who knows?


Is there any designation or writing on the cable pigtail as to the type of wires or cable they are using?
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:45 PM   #35
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Ok, regarding your post, Stubbie, about the wire: it says 8/2 w/ ground on the wire. The website says "requires 6/2 w/g" so that what I got. Can I run #6 from the panel to the junction, then #8 to the unit? I think I can go 8/2 into 6/2, but not the other way; I'm confusing myself now. This would really piss me off at $2/ft.....

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Old 10-18-2007, 05:15 PM   #36
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Well in general the factory pigtail is a different duck than what we install as electricians. It is common for these to have smaller wire that has a higher protection level in the outer insulation and allows these appliance pigtails to carry more amperage per wire size. So I would venture to say you will be fine running 6/2 G to the units #8/2 G pigtail and joining in a Jb. Does the pigtail give any temperature ratings on the outer sheath?

I would just want to be darn sure that is a factory pigtail cord and not something that was added as an after thought. If the unit was purchased new then I would have to assume your will be fine. It sure sounds factory from your previous description.

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Old 10-18-2007, 06:03 PM   #37
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Colonial Flex Type NM-B 600 Volts 8/2 with Ground (UL) Operator - 5

That is the exact writing on the cord coming out of the unit. Yes, it comes direct from the factory, I called the manufacturing facility bc that's where their "technicians" are housed. They re-confirmed that if the panel is in any way removed the warranty is voided.
.......for the record, this really irks me Hahaha
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:19 PM   #38
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Well it's not appliance wire as I thought. Nm-b 8 awg is only good for 40 amps so at the moment I'm at a loss as to how they can specify that for a 60 amp breaker and branch circuit. NM-b 6 awg is good for 55 amps. This titan heater is probably an inductive heat coil operation and is most likely looking at a power factor of close to .9 or so....-- .9 x 240 volts = 216v ---- 11.8Kw/216v = @54 amps, which is the max amp draw rating for your heater. It could be that you would not be able to obtain that given the control circuitry and heating levels allowed. None the less it's not computing in my book. Might call them back and ask how they get a 60 amp breaker and 54 amp rating and supply the unit with a 40 amp pigtail. There is no way an inspector will accept that if he knows the unit is 54 amps on a 60.
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:50 PM   #39
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Need brainstorming ideas on hiding a wire....


I wonder if UL listed it? Or if they listed the unit itself and not the pigtail. If they listed the unit and the pigtail was added after the fact, I'm kinda finding that hard to believe. That would be a big fat law suit against the manufacturer if something untoward happened with an "illegal" pigtail.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:07 PM   #40
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The manufacturer says the unit is listed at 220 volts not 240 so they arent' using any power factors to reach the max. amp draw... they are strictly looking at this thing as a resistive load. 11.8Kw / 220 = 54 amps.

Andy:

I am not sure what the deal is with the #8 nm-b..... that isn't making any common sense in my experience. If they missed this little ampacity thing at the factory that would be a big time oversight and would require a recall of all the units involved.

I just found some images of this heater with what looks like liquidtite from the heater to the jb?? The plot thickens.....
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:47 PM   #41
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Need brainstorming ideas on hiding a wire....


Liquidtite? Ok you guys are over my head now.

Finished the installation (and galvanized to copper) project. As soon as I made certain of no leaks I took a shower, and the unit held up quite well at a higher temp than I expected. The lights thought about dimming when it kicked on but nothing crazy. I checked the unit after, it was a bit warm but not bad at all. I checked the cord also and it was not warm at all.... i guess that's a good thing!

I get into crazy stuff like this so let me know if I can feed any more info from my end. Have a great weekend!
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:14 PM   #42
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Hey thats a good thing, however I will say this #8 nm-b will not support 54 amps over time so I would not turn up the titan to maximum heat. Stay in the recommended range.

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