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Old 11-18-2007, 02:19 PM   #121
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Andy,

I'm feeling very accomplished today already, and I'm seeing the (candle)light at the end of the tunnel, but I have a couple questions...

My dear friend Stubbie in post #99 shot me a pic about the wiring. In the spa pack I've got, the breaker is positioned inside so that there's just not much room to the left of it, but I could wire it exactly how Mr. Stub showed if I need to. I'm wondering about the grounds, the guy at the Depot told me to hook them up to the bus bar between the two neutrals instead of the bus bar shown in Stub's pic. Does that matter? Am I trying to keep other wires away from the grounds? Sorry, I didn't have time yet to read my whole book, but Homer said something about that and I was fuming pretty bad and didn't catch it all. I sh*t you not, the guy was baby talking me... I was grabbing my new wirenuts (being a girl, I have to laugh at that one. It sounds like something you should be doing instead. ) when he came up and asked if he could help me with anything. I told him no, I already found the cable clamps I needed and he says, in a talking-to-a-toddler voice, "Really? All by yourself? What a good girl!!" I swear, the guy came this close to being honk-bonked.

Anxiously awaiting your response...

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Old 11-18-2007, 02:51 PM   #122
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Quote:
I'm wondering about the grounds, the guy at the Depot told me to hook them up to the bus bar between the two neutrals instead of the bus bar shown in Stub's pic. Does that matter? Am I trying to keep other wires away from the grounds?
Hello Honkster

The grounds must not be connected to a bus bar that is the same one the neutrals are connected. You can see this in the image I posted. So if where the person told you is not the same bar or is not connected to the same bar or is insulated from the bar the neutrals are connected to then this is your ground buss bar.

Every spa panel is different as how you route the wires.

Basically just wire it the easiest way that the wires can be connected without making terribly tight bends in the wire. Sometimes this depends on what entry point you use on the spa panel for the line (main panel) and load (spa) wires.

You keep the wires away from each other in the sense you dont want anything bare touching on a wire or bare touching what a wire is connected to or the metal of the Spa box. Only the equipment grounds (green) will be touching a bar that is connected to the metal box. Everything else should be insulated from the metal box and grounds.

What make is your spa panel and the model #? I'll check it out.

I'll try to post some images later today.
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:10 PM   #123
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Hey, Stubbie! Did you pack your stringer full?

I got ya' on the grounds, makes perfect sense, unlike what the Homer said. The buss bar he pointed out was the same one that the neutral is connected to, and it's not connected to the metal box. Sometimes I wonder about those guys...

The pic you sent is a clear, easy one to follow as far as which connections go where. I'm just going to come at it from the other side to avoid those tight bends you mentioned.

The next time you're fishing those lakes, you need to let me know. The very least I can do is buy you a drink. (No honky tonkin' implied there, silly. But I do owe you one.)

Thanks bunches. Hope you had a good trip.
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:26 PM   #124
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Honkyummychocolateicecreambonk,

Do as the diagram Stubbie posted says, not what the talkin' down Homer from the depot said. You can't go wrong.

You can't be weak as a girlie cat when routing those wires. you have to bend them to your will. When attaching the wires to the GFCI in the pack and the ground and neutral to the bars you have to put your Honker booty into it and make sure they are tight. Post back, cause we are all dying to find out what happens next!

Andy the Bonk fan
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:13 PM   #125
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Honkyummychocolateicecreambonk,

OK....I just threw up a little.
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:14 PM   #126
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Stubbie,

Can you review the posts posted while you were goofing off?

I am an idiot when it comes to this machine...but if you have time can you post a link to those nifty Arlington remodel boxes for honkster's convenience recp. so she can compare that with my Fido's ass solution?

I'll be honest...If it was a new home it would get a brick box(for brick) or a normal box for siding, and a bubble cover on the trim out.

For remodel, if it was siding, I would cut in a box and then a bubble cover..If brick people got the Fido's ass bell box and bubble cover with nary a complaint. But those Arlington boxes sure are nifty. What ya think?
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:18 PM   #127
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OK....I just threw up a little.
220, Can't you see I'm just trying to work a little Andy magic, here??

Ya reckon it's working??? I sure hope Honk isn't a four hundred pound angry lesbian in real life...

Just kidding Bonk.

Andy the smooth talking charmer....
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:53 PM   #128
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Andy,

I'm half way through routing in the wires and had to take a quick ibuprofen break (in anticipation of the shape I'll be in later). You were not kidding about no girlie cats allowed. I'm using almost all of my four hundred pounds of muscles here... (Yeah, I caught that one. But had to give ya' a little crap about it ) No worries, though. I'm making it go where it needs to, not taking no for an answer.

Can you even believe the nerve of that baby-talker at the Depot???

Another note to 220 - your last post was hilarious...

I'm up for anything on the outlet, and feeling brave (and strong) enough to tackle a sweet-looking jobber. But in all honesty, appearance is secondary to just having one to use. I'll keep pondering that one (while I man-handle the rest of these wires) in case Stubbie chimes back in with any different ideas. Still waiting to hear if the fish were biting...

Bonk
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:10 PM   #129
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Honkpouryoursugaronmebonk,

Check out your options on cutting in that recp...I'll always say that my way is the ugliest, but least ricky and easiest to buy. I'm guessin' you must not be four hundred lbs. if Homer from the Depot was talking down to you. Read your electrical book and listen to us... you already know more than him anyway.

How has the (strikingly beautiful) anchorwoman job treating ya? I really respect that you are attempting this your self when you probably make kajillions of $'s and hang out with Hillary Clinton...It brings a tear to my eye.

Andy
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:56 PM   #130
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Well, after a few good first-time-around lessons learned, I've got the pack wired. A few finishing touches tomorrow or the next, as I lost the race against daylight hours today and can't just clear my schedule and make this my top priority (sadly, 'cause although I'm whipped I'm also getting a real bang out it), and I'll be able to call it good. I'm assuming the second time I wire something like this it will go much smoother, agree? The outlet wires won't need nearly as much man-handling (right?), so I'm still ready to jump in there.

I didn't get to the new breaker in the main panel yet, but I still feel like I got a lot more done than I actually thought I would thinking back to my first post, so I'm not too down about it. I've got a long holiday weekend coming up and no other plans than to finish up the project...

And Andy, if I made kajillions of dollars I would have sent you a plane ticket already to take care of this for me. Stubbie's close enough that he'd just get gas money. (But seriously, pour my sugar on you??! You're still being the funny guy, aren't ya'?)

Thanks tons for all your help, but don't leave me yet, please. I'll owe ya' if you get me through my upcoming outlet questions...

HB
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:12 PM   #131
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Honktolateforlovebonk,

Don't know why...but I'm in some sort of bizarro Def Leppard mood tonight.

Let's review panel safety.

1. Turn off main.
2. Don't "bonk" taking the cover off...the top lugs are hot and are unprotected by an OCPD
3. Make sure the new breaker is seated snugly and "lines up" with the other breakers.
4. Don't be a girlie cat connecting the wires up to the breakers. If you can't remember which of the two hot wires went where on the old breaker, That is OK. It doesn't matter.
5. Put panel cover back on BEFORE turning on main breaker.
6. turn on new breaker and follow start up steps Stubbie provided.


Would the plane ticket have been first class? Would there have been some of your (strikingly beautiful) anchorwoman fan club members waiting for me as I deplaned? Would there have been champagne and caviar when I arrived at your palatial estate?...Cause if not, well....

Andy the bonker fan
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:37 PM   #132
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Andy,

Coach. Maybe a bag of peanuts on the plane. Cab fare. Cheap hotel. Take it or leave it.

I'll follow all the panel safety tips, and probably let you know before I get there. Thanks again...
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:43 PM   #133
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Andy,

Coach. Maybe a bag of peanuts on the plane. Cab fare. Cheap hotel. Take it or leave it.

I'll follow all the panel safety tips, and probably let you know before I get there. Thanks again...
Oh...tripleSNAP!!!

I'm gonna have to step up that famous, smooth, Andy charm.
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:51 PM   #134
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Hello Honker

Well you certainly made progress today. I had to run out to the hanger to prep the cessna as my daughter and I are going up for a few hours of cross country flying in the morning. Plus thanksgiving is coming so lots of house cleaning needs to be done. Being retired I have inherited that chore.

So lets see if I have it figured out where we are at the moment. You have the spa panel wired and mounted... conduit all the way to the 50 amp gfci spa panel from the main panel then conduit to the spa pack control box and wires connected.

So your ready to install the 50 amp breaker in the main panel..... I assume your not going to restrip the wires so compare the length of bare to the strip gauge on the side of the breaker. If it's close to that your fine. Take the new breaker and test fit one of the wires then if that looks good and by good I mean with the wire seated in the breaker lug your not going to get insulation of the wire under the screw lug that you tighten down on the bare part of the wire. Make sure the wire insulation is stripped back far enough (but not too far..use the strip gauge) that only bare strands of wire are under the breaker lug. If you want you can use needle nose pliers to hold the wire into the breaker lug and then tighten the screw lug of the breaker. The white wire is going to go to the bar with all the other whites as will the green ground wire. You are going to need to back the screw out of the bar quite a ways and you want to look at the neutral bar because some holes are bigger than others on many neutral bars. So pick one of the bigger holes. Do not put your bare hands on the neutral bar!! Even with the main off there could be certain fault situations where current could still be on the neutral bar...so don't touch it. Use rubber or plastic handled tools as as a precaution. If you don't have an acceptable size hole in the neutral bar for the #6 awg neutral post back.

Install the breaker and close up the panel. Do not power up the tub.... leave all the breakers in the off position.

We need to make sure you have proper bonding of all metal within 5 feet of the pool. Including any rebar in a concrete pad if it is sitting on concrete.

So do you have anything like a chain link fence, metal handrails or any metal objects within 5 feet of the spa or 12 foot overhead of the spa? If so there should be a bonding lug inside or just outside the spa pack (control panel). Your required to have these metal objects connected to that lug with a #8 copper wire. This brings the metal around the tub to the same potential and reduces any shock hazards. The spa itself should have bonding of the metal frame pumps etc. Usually the spa are built on a common metal frame and this satisfies the bonding requirements. Take a look and see if everything seems to be bonded together by the metal frame or a wire.

Ok once your sure of your bonding fill the tub with water and add the proper chemicals. Thermostat off and spa pack off. Here are some guide lines for start up......these are universal and not specific to your spa.

Step 1.
Have your water tested for pH, total alkalinity, calcium hardness and stain producing metals. Testing first will give you an idea of the adjustments you need to make to your water upon filling. (Complete step 2 before making any adjustments.)
Step 2.
Add a good sequestering agent as the spa is being filled. Once full, start the pump and filtration system and allow to circulate for 24 hours, if practical.
Step 3.
Test water for pH and total alkalinity. The water should be balanced so that the pH and total alkalinity are within the normal ranges.
The pH should be 7.2-7.8 and the total alkalinity 80-120 ppm.
Once proper levels are obtained, you may want to use a pH lock product to prevent fluctuation of the pH and total alkalinity from refill to refill.
Step 4.
Initially shock treat the water by using a quality non-chlorine shock.
Step 5.
Begin to add desired sanitizer to the water following the manufacturer’s guidelines.
Step 6.
Test and maintain pH, total alkalinity and sanitizer at proper levels.
Step 7.
Water should be drained every 3 months or as necessary to maintain proper water quality.
  1. Fill The Spa With Water
    1. Clear all debris from your spa.
    2. Using a garden hose, start filling the spa with water.
    3. DO NOT use water from a home water heater or softener.
    4. As water level rises, check inside equipment compartment for water leaks. It may be necessary to tighten loose unions and / or fittings.
    5. Make sure SLIDE VALVES at pump(s) and heater are open. (Fully extended position)
    6. Continue filling spa until water level is midway in the skimmer opening. All jets will be under water except neck & upper shoulder jets which will be above water level but are pointing downwards..
  2. Apply Power.
    1. Rotate thermostat knob (if so equipped) counterclockwise to the lowest temperature setting.
    2. Apply power by turning on the spa dedicated circuit breaker.
    3. Test the GFCI : push the TEST button and power is cut off. Push RESET and power is restored. If these do not seem to work STOP do not use your spa : Either there is no power, the GFCI is defective or the equipment is malfunctioning. Only a qualified person should do further inspection.
  3. Bleed The System.

    A certain amount of air is trapped in the lower plumbing. Trapped air causes poor performance and may cause heater failure. To bleed it :
    1. Run the jets pump in low speed.
    2. Locate and loosen the heater output union a quarter turn.
    3. After all the air has escaped, and when water starts dripping, hand tighten the union.
  4. Add Startup Chemicals.
Turn on the breaker in the main panel. Then go to the spa panel and turn on the gfci breaker then go to the spa and turn the spa pack on.


Hope this helps get you soaking.

Stubbie
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:18 PM   #135
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Helps??? You're amazing!! I hope everyone appreciates you as much as I do on this site, I can't believe all the info you've been kind enough to provide. And you clean the house to boot... What a guy.

As I'm not retired, I'll need a little more time to get as far as you've taken me, but thanks so much in advance, and please stay close... It's very possible I'll have more questions along the way.

Happy flying tomorrow. I'll check for the necessary wires around the tub.

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