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Old 11-16-2007, 02:01 AM   #106
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One last thing.... the disconnect may have to be moved a foot or two from that junction box location towards the main panel in order to get the wires long enough to connect inside the spa panel. It will just depend. That will mean the wires going to the spa and conduit may be to short to reach the new location. You may have to replace that part. You will have to cut the conduit and get some new fittings to connect to the disconnect panel. You just have to see how it works out. Anyway the disconnect needs to be no closer than 5 feet from the closest wall of the tub and insight of the tub. You also need to have something solid to anchor the spa panel to like a wall stud or use some type of hollow wall anchor that will work with your situation it will depend on the exterior siding, hopefully not vinyl... it's a pain.

Also the non gfci breaker you will get to replace the bad (hopefully) gfci in the main panel will be the last thing you do before doing the tub start up. Always connect grounds first then neutrals then the hots as a general rule.

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Last edited by Stubbie; 11-16-2007 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:22 PM   #107
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Hey, Candy Andy...

Got my sweet spa pack purchased, I've looked it over and read everything through, and I've got to tell ya', I'm feeling pretty good about it. Trying not to be over-confident, because I don't want to get so excited to jump in there that I skip over a safety step. (or trip over one, with my luck.)

Stubbie had mentioned a couple things for me to watch for... Anchoring this thing to the house into a stud will not be a problem, I'll make sure it's completely secure. And there's plenty of wire for me to make the breaks that I need and still reach everything. It looks like the best place for me to put this is where it will eliminate the need for me to replace the big, blue wirenuts, I'll be installing this before that junction box. As far as the possibility of including an outlet (I do love candle light, but what if it's breezy?), what are you thinking? I had a little chat with the guy at the store, and he briefly ran me through what sounded like an easy option. I would like to hear what's on your mind there, though, please. Thanks, as always...

(Note to Stubbie upon his return from the lakes: Jumping back a few posts... Who said anything about 'Honky Tonkin' ??? I just wanted to go fishing. How'd you do?)
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:53 PM   #108
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Honkhoneyflavouredhardcandybonk,

You've got a couple of options. I'm curious as to what the Homer at the Depot said. All will disagree, but SOME of those guys and dolls know what they are talking about. One is to find an interior outlet on an exterior wall. Recieve some schooling if that is an option, and mount an outlet on the outside wall of the house. Another (easy for a pro, but hard for a girl ) option is to pull new wire thru the exsisting (SP? brain fart) conduit and go from there.Give us a little more description of what we are looking at. Photos with a bikini involved WOULD HELP, you know!

When it is breezy all good electricians retire to the bedroom...everyone knows that.

Andy

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Old 11-17-2007, 02:50 PM   #109
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Hey, Cookie...

As far as the outlet, in a nutshell, I was told (please excuse my improper terminology, you've been with me so far so I'm hopin' you can understand what I'm saying here) I could add an outlet right from the 50A pack - three wires coming from the outlet, only one of them would be hot (sharing with the hot tub wire) and grounding the other two... Possible? Or is it possible but not smart? He pointed out where and how to do this with all the connections inside the box. As far as trying to pull another cable through the 3/4" pvc, it would be a pretty snug fit. Obviously too tough for a girl to manage...

Just throwing that one back at ya' for fun, but don't worry about offending me when it comes to the battle of the sexes thing. I honestly believe there are certain things guys do best (well, duh...) and us girls can do our best to keep up and will sometimes pass you by. There are, however, many areas where us girls just have natural ability and while you try to keep up we can't help but leave you in the dust. Hey, it's nature. No offense to anyone of either sex.

But I'm getting off track again. Geez, you gotta' stop making me do that... Response on the outlet?? Thanks...
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Old 11-17-2007, 04:22 PM   #110
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Honkamericanpiebobonk,

You got off track 'cause you mentioned the word "sex".

Think this one thru with me. If a receptacle outlet, by code, can only be protected by a 15A or 20A breaker(depending on the wire size), how would scabbing on a recep. at the spa pack be compliant? True, it would be GFCI protected, but the breaker (also known by us electricians, and you, our apprentice, as an overcurrent protective device(OCPD)) is fifty Amps. This puts us in the same boat as the disco listening playa who wired his outlet this way. Where is this tub in relationship to the house?

If you could find a receptacle INSIDE the house on an exterior wall...We could teach you some cool tricks to connect to it and prest... have a recptacle on the outside of the house.

Last edited by Andy in ATL; 11-18-2007 at 08:17 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 11-17-2007, 05:43 PM   #111
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Andy,

(I'm going to try and ease off the name calling and just enjoy the ones you come up with. While I still think you're sweet, I just can't compete. Can anyone?)

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow (I'm talking about the outlet again), I'm gonna' stick with you on the safety end of things. And actually, an inside outlet on that wall is not a problem. The hot tub is on the outside of an extra room that used to be a garage, and there's an outlet inside almost opposite of the one he rigged up on the outside. I like the idea of only having to think about wiring the tub up out there, anyway. So, trick away. I'm ready to be taught.

I'm curious... Do the guys on this site find you as funny as the ladies do? 'Cause I don't want to over-inflate your ego, but you are a very funny guy.

HonkBonk
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:11 PM   #112
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You two should boink
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:27 PM   #113
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Honkpuddingbonk,

I'm guessing you are the only one who gets my humor on the entire internet. Why would I care what a bunch of smelly construction worker guys think?

Whats the outside of this house made of? Our goal here is to take the recp on the wall apart (power CONFIRMED off, of course). The recp. box will be attached to a stud (I said "stud" and it turned ya on a little, didn't it, Honk?). Once we determine which side the stud is on, we want to drill a hole in the side of the receptacle box opposite of the side where the stud is. This will put us in empty wall space. Make sense? Now is where you are going to earn your money. Using a tape measure and your smarts you have to figure out where on the exterior wall you will need to drill your hole.

Where you can mess up is drilling your hole IN THE WRONG SPOT! Measure five times if you have to!!! Others have weblinks(I am a bit of a retard on the net) which will show you products involving cutting in this recp. with a beautiful end result. Homer at the Depot has what I would use at my house, but I ain't that picky when it comes to MY HOUSE. Hopefully somebody will post the links.

What Homer has is a "bell box" which is essentially a recp. box like the one in your wall. After drilling the hole(only as big as you need to get a piece of wire thru) in your house, take a piece of either 14/2 if the OCPD is 15A or 12/2 if the OCPD is 20A and pass it thru the hole in the recp. inside the house and then out the hole you've made in the house. The Bell box will mount to the wall much like your spa pack. Install a GFCI (requirement cause it is outside, kind of spendy $10) and a "bubble cover" and let the romantic moodlighting and swanky music take you away. The arguement could be made that a bell box and a bubble cover is going to stick out to far and look like Fido's ass. Honkinator needs to decide how complicated you want to get. What we will have accomplished is a safe and compliant installation.

By 14/2 and 12/2 I mean NM/B with ground. Commonly called "romex" or house wire. You don't have to get "UF" which is similiar, but much spendier.

Almost forgot... Once you get you wire thru the hole of the bell box, go ahead and seal that hole with silicone. Once the installation is complete, Silicone the top and sides of the bell box, but not the bottom.

I think your having fun at this, aren't ya Honk? i think that's awesome. Questions are good and if I've left anything out please jump in, other pros.

Your biggest cheerleading (well that sounded gay, didn't it? ) fan,

Andy
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:28 PM   #114
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220, I'm blushing... Honkinator is a lady.
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:46 PM   #115
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Holy sh*t, Andy, you've got me laughing so damn hard I'm going to have to read that all again, at least twice more, before I'll be able to concentrate on the parts that have to do with actual electrical wiring.

The siding won't be a problem, and I have a window maybe a little more than a foot away from the inside outlet, so I don't think measuring it out will be that tough. Unless, of course, there's something bad about putting it that close to a window that I don't know about. The inside outlet is midway up the wall, the cable guy said that's how he knew it used to be a garage. I'm just curious, but why is that? And did I tell you I bought myself a book on the subject? (wiring, that is) I'm going to read up a little there, then try to read this back through, but that definitely (girl or not) sounds like something I can handle.

Note to 220 - Handling Andy, on the other hand, is something altogether different. I'm trying to keep my head on straight, here, so be careful on the encouragement side of things.
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:50 PM   #116
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I am totally innocent here.
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:54 PM   #117
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My ass...
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:57 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honker View Post
My ass...
While we are on that subject...
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Old 11-17-2007, 07:18 PM   #119
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Thanks for proving my point, Mr. I am totally innocent here Cheerleader.

I've finally got a little bit of a grip back (and no, Andy, not on my a**).

My apologies to everyone for the language usage.

Are you going to answer my outlet half way up the wall and near the window question? Or are we going to play tonight instead?? (That was a rhetorical question...)
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Old 11-17-2007, 07:48 PM   #120
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Playing is MUCH MORE fun.

The Window has no bearing. The fact that the recp is at "countertop" height only complicates it a little. It is that high so when a work bench is installed it would work out. COULD be a local variance of the code, but I doubt it.

Your recp outside can be any height. Snow much??? Keep it above the snow line so you don't have to dig it out when using the tub in a blizzard. 'course if there is a blizzard I bet I could figure out how to have just as much fun inside.

The wall is likely insulated...You'll have to "fish" the wire down thru the insulation in the stud( there is that word again) space. The smallest amount of wire Homer the Depot will sell ya is 25?? feet. 14&12/2 romex has three wires in it. To go fishing, I take one of these wires and bend a little hook in it. Work it down the wall and use another little piece to hook it out of the wall. Patience and dogged determination is key, here. Or mount that sucker up high so, after carefull measuring the hole in the side of the box on the inside is an inch or two from the hole on the outside. Fido's ass comes into play when it is that high...but hey.

Notice I didn't tell ya how to wire the recp.? 'cause you got the book and you are a smart cookie, I figured you could figure that out.

I'd rather play

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