Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-03-2013, 10:01 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


My wife would like me to install an automatic drip system for the garden. In the past, I would just walk up to the detached garage and flip on the dedicated 220V "PUMPHOUSE" switch , that feeds power to a pressure switch at an external pumphouse...servicing an in-ground 220V deepwell pump.This would allow power to the pressure switch, until we determined the watering is complete...and then I would walk back to the switch in the garage and turn it off.

I am not willing to completely rely on the "pressure switch"to do it's job and shut the pump off when the valves are closed. (This is not a plumbing question)....I could figure it out when we had sprinklers going...but I am concerned that a drip system could hide that fact for a long time (if I forget to shut off the pump for example...and it continues to cycle).
This is a representative example of the pressure switch I use
.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/48rqf1ahd0yzytc/wps.jpg

I would like to install two small indicator lights on the outside of the wellhouse, so I could look at it from afar, and determine the status of the power to the pressure sw and at the pump.
One would indicate when power was being sent to the pressure switch (switch in the garage is flipped on).
The other light to indicate when in fact the pump was running. (the pressure switch calling for the pump to come on).

I was thinking I could just pull 120V power off each (Black wire)circuit, one to one light from the source side, and one from the load side -to power the light....and then run the white wires to their respective sides for return. (Since it sometimes a wet environment, I would also run the ground to the base of the pressure switch from each light.)

But when I was reading another post about a gent who wanted to wire 120 lights from a dedicated 220V system in his workshop, experts warned him not to.

Can someone suggest the best way to tackle this problem...?

Do I need 220V lights.> (E27) or can I use LED light bulbs for longevity and cycle concerns?

I'd prefer it be some kind of small blinking indicator...as opposed to some giant globed light bulb....just something that would be easy to notice if I was looking for it.

Even though this is in an unincorporated county property-given that it is in a sometimes wet environment (pumps, hoses, accumulator tanks and sprinklers)...I want to be sure I don't do something really stupid.

I could use some advice on the best way an electrician might tackle this issue.
Thanks
Blackjack


Last edited by Navion48; 02-03-2013 at 10:04 PM.
Navion48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 09:10 PM   #2
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,618
Rewards Points: 1,030
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


One solution would be an industrial pilot light. These are fairly small, they range in size from about 1" to 1-3/8" in diameter. They are not too bright, you'll be able to see them from 100' away in the dark, maybe 20' during the day. They are available in a variety of voltages and also flashing. Several lens covers are also available.

Since I work in fairly high abuse plants, I use Allen Bradley equipment. It's the most expensive stuff you can buy, but it holds up well. There are a bunch of different manufacturers that make pilot lights. But I know their part numbers off the top of my head, so I'll use their numbers. You can usually cross-reference to any other manufacturer, and get something that'll work for you for a lot less money.

The Allen Bradley part number I'd use is 800TPF26R. This is about 1-3/8" in diameter, and will accept 240 volts input. The R on the end is a red lens. Other lenses are G for green, A for amber, B for blue, C for clear, and W for white. Other manufacturers make the same stuff in the same voltage and lens color too.

These pilot lights mount in a 30.5MM hole. Several types of enclosures are available. The Allen Bradley basic surface mount enclosure with two 30.5MM holes in the cover is 800T2TZ. It's gray, if you want yellow, it'd be 800T2TZY. Other manufacturers make these enclosures too.

For a simple greenhouse, I'd shop around a bit and find something not so spendy.....

There are several mounting styles, the 30.5MM has been around the longest, and is easiest to use. There is also 22.5MM, these are smaller and produce less light. They are not interchangeable with each other, the holes are different sizes.

These pilot lights may or may not work for you, they might not put out enough light.

Rob

P.S. 230 and 250 volt incandescent light bulbs are also available. Almost all sockets are rated for 250 volts. The 250s will last longer.


Last edited by micromind; 02-04-2013 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Added P.S.
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 10:08 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 1,001
Rewards Points: 504
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


You could also use a relay control from the 240 circuit and control any voltage you want.
theatretch85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 10:17 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


I want to thank Rob for pointing me to the pilot lights solution. This was exactly the kind of light presentation I was hoping to find.

You were right..they're not cheap. The ones I saw were quite steep ($100)...I could find them cheaper (used) on Ebay...but still around $45 dollars. The enclosure is perfect also..but steep ($60.00)

I also found these lights
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PBC-PLI-30NC...item19c134841e

which are only $15.00...but I haven't found the dedicated enclosure I can mount these pilot lights into. I suppose you just skin the electrical wires and plug them in to the existing recessed holes at the bottom..and mount the lights into a small electrical box similar to the Allen Bradley 800T2TZ using the lights' ferrule and bolt. I'll need to research a little more about that.

Also..I'm still confused regarding if I need to use a 120V light on one side of the (pressure) switch before the pump is energized...to indicated I have power to the switch. (I know it's 220 going to the pump.)

Thanks,
John
Navion48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 10:26 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


Would a relay control be able to step the output voltage from the 220V at the (pressure) switch, down to 120v to be used to light a pilot light (Theatretch85).?

If so...could you suggest a reasonably priced one that could be used in this scenario?

Thanks,
John
Navion48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 10:32 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 1,001
Rewards Points: 504
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Navion48 View Post
Would a relay control be able to step the output voltage from the 220V at the (pressure) switch, down to 120v to be used to light a pilot light (Theatretch85).?

If so...could you suggest a reasonably priced one that could be used in this scenario?

Thanks,
John
A relay won't step the voltage down, but would allow a 120 volt bulb to be safely used with a 240 volt control. The relay is simply a switch controlled by the 240 volt circuit, the relay contacts are isolated from the source (control input). You would need a 120 volt circuit to feed the indicator bulbs (or whatever voltage bulbs you find).

http://ribrelays.com/

What exactly do you have running to your well pump house for power?
theatretch85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:28 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


When we moved into the house, the electrician wired a dedicated 220V circuit from the garage to the pumphouse. I flip a (standard toggle light) switch in the garage, and that sends power to the pressure switch at the pumphouse.

I'd thought that was in the form of two 120V wires (because there are two black wires on one side of the switch......but I probably need to go back and double check. I know the pump is a 220V inground pump.

I suppose I need to go back to the garage dedicated box...and verify where the 220V originates....whether at that box...or at the switch.

John
Navion48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:49 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 1,001
Rewards Points: 504
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


You will need to verify the wiring running from the garage to your pump house. Do you have 2 insulated wires + ground or do you have 3 insulated wires + ground? Is it UF or in conduit underground?

Depending on the wiring running to your pump house, you may not have a choice but to use a 240 volt bulb.
theatretch85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 12:37 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


I'll need to get back to you on that....as this is at the place we stay at in the summer. Pretty certain he used abs conduit (plastic) to run the line in...but I need to double check the number of wires inside that conduit. I should be going up this week, and I will report back.
John
Navion48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 02:49 PM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


I found out it is only one single (orange) wire UF underground to the pumphouse. (It has one white, one black and one ground wire looked like 10 gauge.) That is carrying a 240 V load. In the garage, that wire is connected to two 30 amp fuses in the panel.

So I suppose I'm limited to a 240V bulb to do what I want to do (Pilot light).

My question now is...In order to get a two pilot lights at the pumphouse...would it be acceptable to just attach the wires at the switch? One pilot light would show power to the switch...and the other pilot light to show when the switch activates the pump?
THanks
John
Navion48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:31 PM   #11
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,860
Rewards Points: 2,116
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


If it is orange, then it is an illegal install.
Orange cable is nm-b and is not to be used in a damp or wet location, and conduit underground is a wet location.
The cable should have been gray or individual wires used.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 06:42 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 1,001
Rewards Points: 504
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


jbfan is right, but in any case, you only have 240 volts to your pump house which means you don't have a neutral and no way to run any 120 volt load at the pump house. You would need a 240 volt bulb to do what you want to do, and the relay idea I mentioned earlier in this thread won't help you in this case.
theatretch85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:02 PM   #13
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,618
Rewards Points: 1,030
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Navion48 View Post
I found out it is only one single (orange) wire UF underground to the pumphouse. (It has one white, one black and one ground wire looked like 10 gauge.) That is carrying a 240 V load. In the garage, that wire is connected to two 30 amp fuses in the panel.

So I suppose I'm limited to a 240V bulb to do what I want to do (Pilot light).

My question now is...In order to get a two pilot lights at the pumphouse...would it be acceptable to just attach the wires at the switch? One pilot light would show power to the switch...and the other pilot light to show when the switch activates the pump?
THanks
John
I can't think of a code reference to require any type of overcurrent or short-circuit protection for a pilot light for your application. I've installed hundreds of pilot lights over the years, most of them are powered by low current control circuits, but a few of them have been powered by larger circuits.

Just as a personal preference, I'd fuse a pilot light if it was powered by anything over 30 amps. Again, no code reference, just what years of experience tells me.

One easy way to fuse the circuit would be to get two in-line fuseholders (4 total for your project), and use 1 amp fuses that are rated for 250 volts AC. Most automotive type glass fuses under 5 amps are rated for 250 volts AC.

Rob
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 12:44 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,965
Rewards Points: 2,026
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


The pilot light, like any light or appliance or device, is rated for use on a circuit breakered at so many amperes or less. Most 120 volt devices are rated for use on a 20 amp circuit.

One thing I thought of was wiring two lamp sockets in series and mounting them to a board and connecting them to the 240 volt circuit. This does look sloppy since both 120 volt light bulbs come on at the same time. Also, the board with the sockets is a light fixture. Even though the parts (lamp sockets) may have been rated as safe by an agency such as Underwriters Laboratories, the complete fixture, which you built yourself, is not so rated. One reason it may fail UL rating if it somehow got submitted is that there is no way to assure that both 120 volt light bulbs are the same which would be necessary for safe operation on 240 volts.

To monitorthe pump itself, a pilot light is wired across the two power feed terminals of the pump. To show that the switch is getting power a pilot light is wired between the feed side switch terminal and the other conductor (return conductor; neutral if 120 volts) for the pump
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.

Last edited by AllanJ; 02-09-2013 at 12:47 PM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 01:53 PM   #15
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Rewards Points: 1,000
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

Need assist on installing Well Pump Status Lights outside of pumphouse.


Wire a light socket up on the side of the building and install a 230v light bulb.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Satco-07414-EFMSP26-50-230V-S7414-Twist-Medium-Screw-Base-Compact-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb&source=GoogleBaseCSE?gclid=CPLL29OAqrUCFYWo4A odqD8Atw

__________________
With Electricity there is the right way to do it and the dead way. Just because it works does not make it safe.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sump pump operation MikeKy55 Plumbing 16 05-11-2011 04:35 PM
Low Well Pressure, Submersible Well Pump, Help Please! tpolk Plumbing 7 11-13-2009 06:13 PM
Installing pot lights billybarty Electrical 19 03-18-2008 06:58 PM
Installing a shower pump darrenbooy Plumbing 5 11-11-2007 04:24 AM
Installing Recessed Lights IdahoBob Electrical 6 08-23-2007 10:03 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.