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Old 03-09-2011, 11:04 PM   #1
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NEC - rewiring required?


I'm in the process of rehabbing a home. I have gutted the kitchen and bathroom. I have also completely removed all of the pannelling walls and celing on the upper level of the home. I plan on having an electrician rewire the kitchen and bathroom, as well as add a few other small circuits.

My question, is: Am I required to rewire the entire upper level, as the walls are exposed? I would think not, but I have no idea and have received mixed messages on this. It would significantly add to my costs, and it appears there is no issues with the existing wiring.

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Old 03-09-2011, 11:23 PM   #2
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NEC - rewiring required?


best to ask local code inspectors on that one

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Old 03-09-2011, 11:40 PM   #3
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NEC - rewiring required?


The building inspector will have the answer however from my past experince in both USA and France sides anytime you open up the walls to exposed it and you will have no choice but bring it up to the code.

I have ran into this many time and I genrally tell the customers that once the walls are open it will automatique updated to the latest codes. the grandfather clause is gone once the wall is ripped open.{ exposed like take drywall or old plaster et lath off }

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Old 03-10-2011, 08:09 AM   #4
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NEC - rewiring required?


I agree with Marc, i think you are in for a full rewire. This means complying with all the new circuit requirements, Arc fault breakers, spacing etc. You might also need to upgrade to the current building code requirements for smoke alarms and/or CO detection. some areas use the 51% rule that if more than half the building is renovated it all must comply.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:19 AM   #5
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NEC - rewiring required?


Not here, if you don't structurally change the premises or change wiring... In our jurisdiction you don't need to.

You really need to speak to someone that handles the inspections there and verify. This totally a location-base discussion. Also, I'm guessing based on the question you found something... So, on the other hand - if it's safe then I could feel OK with leaving it if the inspectors answer is as mine is. If it's unsafe - fix it. You want that in the back of your mind if you see that house on TV glowing orange someday?
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:24 AM   #6
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NEC - rewiring required?


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Originally Posted by cschwehr
Not here, if you don't structurally change the premises or change wiring... In our jurisdiction you don't need to.

You really need to speak to someone that handles the inspections there and verify. This totally a location-base discussion. Also, I'm guessing based on the question you found something... So, on the other hand - if it's safe then I could feel OK with leaving it if the inspectors answer is as mine is. If it's unsafe - fix it. You want that in the back of your mind if you see that house on TV glowing orange someday?
If you don't have an issue really - then please legitimately talk to your local inspector - you're going to get jurisdictional answers here and they will not be accurate for your area.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:00 PM   #7
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NEC - rewiring required?


Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhammer View Post
... I have also completely removed all of the pannelling walls and celing on the upper level of the home...
And when you did this you didn't find things that send you screaming for the hills (burried boxes, splices, K&T, etc.) Yes it's more expensive that not rewiring, but this is the time to do it. Bite the bullet.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:48 PM   #8
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NEC - rewiring required?


Any time you open the walls, it is best to replace what you can, and upgrade what you need or may need in the future (telephone, networking, coax for video, home theater). If the home is over fifty years old, yes it would be best to upgrade the wiring, and add those features that may not have been there in the past (GFCI, AFCI, 14/3 for newer 2011 codes for lighting switch circuits, wired smoke & CO detectors), better insulation for outside walls (Spray Foam, sealed cracks for airtight, vapor barrier).
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Old 03-12-2011, 09:41 AM   #9
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NEC - rewiring required?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll
Any time you open the walls, it is best to replace what you can, and upgrade what you need or may need in the future (telephone, networking, coax for video, home theater). If the home is over fifty years old, yes it would be best to upgrade the wiring, and add those features that may not have been there in the past (GFCI, AFCI, 14/3 for newer 2011 codes for lighting switch circuits, wired smoke & CO detectors), better insulation for outside walls (Spray Foam, sealed cracks for airtight, vapor barrier).
This comes down to the line between a reno/flip or rental or your own home or a reno for someone else.

You should always spend the money, till you don't have it. lol
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:23 AM   #10
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NEC - rewiring required?


Actually comes down to safety, and cost savings for heating & cooling, and bringing up to more modern times.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by gregzoll
Actually comes down to safety, and cost savings for heating & cooling, and bringing up to more modern times.
So there is a large, marked safety difference between a home that uses 14/2 1970's NMD and today's NMD on a 15A breaker? We don't even know what he has in the roof... So telling him to yank everything seems pretty premature.

You're telling me that putting in spray foam is a genuine cost savings over pink and properly installed vapor barrier for a basic homeowner who might sell the home in five years? A lot of these upgrades requires you to seriously educate a buyer about the benefit so you can pass on the cost and not lose your shirt. Spray foam companies that incorrectly install spray foam can cause fires or off gas for long periods leaving the homeowner susceptible to long term annoyance. A homeowner can quickly install a rooms worth of insulation and vapor and know it's done right.

I'd sooner install all new breakers that accurately trip at 15A instead of 25A or more, than pass on the 2011 NEC code for a bunch of AFCI breakers that also make any existing three wire feed a total headache. Lets leave the CSA reg differences aside, I'm just using NEC since many ppl here are US-based. We can't even buy AFCI breakers for 14/3 here (Canada) or the receptacle style either. It's always great to hide behind the safety card when you want to justify an extra $2000-$5000 in materials and labor- but safety can only go so far. How many arc fault related fires were from the guy who ran NMD behind a baseboard then shot it with a nail in a bedroom? Nobody sees the statistics but I'll but nobody is ever going to remove the fact that if you don't carefully do your installations properly - all the legislation in the world won't fix stupidity. Arc faults are safer for one type of arc signature and higher than GFCI leakage rates, if you install dual AFCI/GFCI breakers it's great - until every random item in the house gets five years old and you start tripping every motor start or ballast firing, I've even seem 110cfm broan fans trip GFCI units out of the box new when protected over a tub.

I recall I was the one who asked what was wrong, and what was hidden. Till I see some information - I'll be holding off on telling him to spend $10,000+ (that he might not even have) updating a home unless we know what's going on.

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