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Old 03-31-2014, 03:05 PM   #1
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


Hi,

I'm getting ready to rewire my home (permits and inspections will be obtained). I've been reading up on the 2014 code which our area is adoping. It looks like AFCI is going to be required on nearly all 15 & 20 amp 120v circuits.

I'm thinking of using an AFCI breaker with a faceless GFCI "plug" near the electrical panel. Aside from the wall space used, does anyone see any code violations or other logistical challenges?

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Old 03-31-2014, 03:17 PM   #2
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


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Originally Posted by b4bhomeowner View Post
Hi,

I'm getting ready to rewire my home (permits and inspections will be obtained). I've been reading up on the 2014 code which our area is adoping. It looks like AFCI is going to be required on nearly all 15 & 20 amp 120v circuits.

I'm thinking of using an AFCI breaker with a faceless GFCI "plug" near the electrical panel. Aside from the wall space used, does anyone see any code violations or other logistical challenges?

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What is the GFCI for?

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Old 03-31-2014, 03:34 PM   #3
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


I would only use the GFCI where you actually need them. Garage, kitchen counter tops..bathroom....and outside.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:00 PM   #4
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


Why are you planning the GFI near the panel? Is it just to provide a receptacle in the basement?
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:53 PM   #5
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


So I was not clear in my post. I'd like to protect all circuits with class A GFCI and code required AFCI. AFCI is required on most circuits. GFCI is required on many circuits in laundry, kitchen, bath and outdoor areas.

So in order to protect life and property I'm thinking of using all AFCI breakers on 120v circuits. Then in a single gang box near the main panel use a faceless GFCI for each 120v circuit.

IMHO this should provide maximum protection and and worth the $12 per circuit. I wouldn't need to worry about installing AFCI or GFCI outlets at the point of use as they will already be installed at the panel.

My main concern is if this violates the 2014 NEC in any way.

Secondary to code violations are there any logistical issues I want to consider?
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:56 PM   #6
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


It would not violate the NEC and would exceed it by having the Class A GFI protection everywhere.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:28 AM   #7
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


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It would not violate the NEC and would exceed it by having the Class A GFI protection everywhere.
That's what I was thinking too. Thanks.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:56 AM   #8
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


I use faceless gfci's all the time next to a panel, much cheaper than circuit breakers.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:53 AM   #9
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


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I use faceless gfci's all the time next to a panel, much cheaper than circuit breakers.
Why not use GFCI outlets at the first outlet? Obviously that won't work for lighting circuits, or do you want to put them there also?

Speaking of which, how effective is the GFCI protection on a AFCI? I know it is 60ma rather than 6ma, so it won't prevent a shock; but does it really do anything at all useful? It wouldn't keep you from falling off a ladder, but would it offer protection is someone throws a toaster in your bathtub?
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:38 AM   #10
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


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I use faceless gfci's all the time next to a panel, much cheaper than circuit breakers.
the extra breake cost, labor for wiring to me does not off set the cost of popping in a breaker ...
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Old 04-01-2014, 03:01 PM   #11
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


I don't see any code issues but it does seem like this could be a logistical issue. I don't know how big your house is but most houses would need at least 30 circuits. Some of them will be 240V and not GFCI'd so you will still probably have about 20 120V circuits requiring it. That is a lot of blank face GFCI's at the panel. I'm not sure how your planning on mounting and wiring them all without it looking like a disaster.

If you are intent on GFCI protecting everything I would probably just focus on on receptacles. GFCI protect the first receptacle on each circuit and call it a day. I can't really think of a scenario where GFCI protecting lighting would be useful.

For dedicated circuits your also probably better off just putting the GFCI at the device rather than at the panel. Anywhere you add a splice your are introducing a failure point. No reason to add more than necessary.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:51 PM   #12
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


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the extra breake cost, labor for wiring to me does not off set the cost of popping in a breaker ...
Possibly, unless your dealing with an oddball panel, and you stock faceless gfci's on your truck.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:56 PM   #13
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toller
Why not use GFCI outlets at the first outlet? Obviously that won't work for lighting circuits, or do you want to put them there also? Speaking of which, how effective is the GFCI protection on a AFCI? I know it is 60ma rather than 6ma, so it won't prevent a shock; but does it really do anything at all useful? It wouldn't keep you from falling off a ladder, but would it offer protection is someone throws a toaster in your bathtub?
I have one outside GFCI hanging off an AFCI CKT

Works fine. In fact, the AFCI actually detected that I had a broken wire in the box
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:00 PM   #14
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toller View Post
Why not use GFCI outlets at the first outlet? Obviously that won't work for lighting circuits, or do you want to put them there also?

Speaking of which, how effective is the GFCI protection on a AFCI? I know it is 60ma rather than 6ma, so it won't prevent a shock; but does it really do anything at all useful? It wouldn't keep you from falling off a ladder, but would it offer protection is someone throws a toaster in your bathtub?
You will still get shocked with GFCI protection.
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:42 PM   #15
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NEC 2014 AFCI & GFCI thought


I wonder if nuisance trips on all those AFCIs and GFCIs could present more of a hazard to life and safety than they'll provide?

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