NEC 2011...possible changes

Semi-Retired El

IMO, the only safety part of this new rule is if the number of devices exceeds the 4 ma on the bare wire a GFCI will trip, and someone may replace the GFCI with a standard breaker.

Also, with current on the ground wire and unsuspecting individual many receive a small shock and jump into a sharp edge or hot wire.

Wiring 3W & 4W switches with this new rule will either require 4 conductor wire or feeding the power from one end of the circuit and the light from the other, so a (unused neutral) is in every switch location.

I suspect the cheap "no neutral electronic devices" will disappear from the shelves soon.

FLICKER

I usually have a neutral in the switch box as I like to make the connections there instead of on a ladder with my arms over my head (After a rotator cuff injury and repair reminds me to do this). fewer wires in attic lights the better, less work to relocate a light fixture and fewer wires in attic space where trusses cannot be drilled.
Dave

Jess82

I'm currently in school for electrical and from what they are telling us 11 code is not going into affect, everyone is going off of 08 code. They said who knows if 11 code will ever go into affect because people are questioning different articles in the code book. we may end up going straight from 08 to 14 code. I'm not sure if this is just PA statewide or all electricians but that would end up costing so much more using 3 wire on all switch loops.

gregzoll

Incorrect Jess82. 2011 NEC is in force, and there are a lot of areas that are currently using the 2011 NEC code, or some form of it in their area. Suggest if it is your instructor telling you this, to find another instructor.

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joed

Unless you are in a region that is not using the 2011 code.

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gregzoll

Our City is just now adopting the 2011.

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Jess82

Pittsburgh isn't using 2011 code, we have the 2011 code handbook but were told from the start that most are still using 05 code and we were just informed last week that the area just adopted 08 code and that there's a possibility of skipping 11 code and going straight to 14 code since the 14 codebook will be out in August. Rosedale tech has been around since 49 so I'm hoping they know what they're talking about.

gregzoll

It may be just Pittsburgh, due to the 2014 is being cconsidered a bigger money grab, than 2011 was supposed to be.

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electures

Here is a state by state map of NEC adoption.

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All responses based on the 2011 NEC.
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dudleydoright

First of all. The NEC is written by the National Fire Protection Association. In this modern day existence, there is still life and property destroyed due to electrocution or fire. A good percentage of property loss is due to fire, and a good percentage if not most of that is a result of an electrical problem. That said, Yes it is in fact necessary to include a neutral(grounded) conductor to all switch boxes. As mentioned this is for mainly the use of occupancy sensors, which are required in any new work or upgrades here in California to meet the ENERGY EFFICIENCY STANDARDS that are part of the building code here.
To use the ground wire as a neutral turns that conductor into a current carrying conductor which in turn takes the safety away from the equipment grounding conductor. The reason is the equipment grounding conductor is like a vacant path for the current to travel in the event of a fault. The use as a current carrying conductor, negates the potential free nature of the equipment ground. AND if the house has a sub panel, which is required to be fed with 4 conductors,(L1, L2, N, G) with the neutral isolated from the equipment ground, you disable that separation also. The neutral and the ground only connect at the service entrance to the dwelling. This is where your grounding electrode conductor(s), neutral, equipment and main bonding jumpers, equipment grounding conductors, and grounded service conductor all tie together. The grounded service conductor is grounded at the pole side and at the dwellings as part of the utilities safety as it helps to limit the voltage in the event of a major fault or failure due to some event beyond their control that would possibly be sent into your home if hooked up otherwise. I WOULD HAVE TO VERIFY THIS, but the only time a Neutral and Ground was allowed to be on the same conductor in recent history was if the circuit originated at the service entrance. And that may have been disallowed at this point. I never use a 2-G cable opting for a 3-G as the cost is negligable, and eliminates the issue. And appliances are now hooked up with 4 wire pigtails(ranges, dryers, 220 volt utilization equipment).
As far as outlets being spaced maximum of 12 feet along any unbroken plane, it is entirely a safety issue and nothing else. You see in order for a device to be approved as safe for public use by the process we use in the USA, which is Underwriters Labratory, as far as consumer devices(TV,Stereo,Lamps, consumer electronics of all types actually)pretty much anything that will be cord connected,EXCEPT kitchen appliances, will have a 6 foot cord to connect that device to power. They can be longer, but manufacturing being what it is all you get is the required minimum and coincidentally, that just so happens to work out so that there is no extension cord required. Extension cords are a problem because people either overload them, run them under carpet, put them in an area of traffic, pinch them under say a sofa leg, etc, which leads to failure, then leads to electrocution or fire which results in loss of life or property.
It is stated in the NEC that the electrical system shall be installed with a margain of extra capacity to allow for upgrades as technology changes in the future. Yes this is a grey area between design and safety, but it is in the publics best interest and any one that moans over these things, well, do it your way, it will work, but when the unfortunate time comes that a properly installed system would protect you, is it really worth the few dollars to maybe it might protect you and if it doesn't, well, charred human remains, be it yours, your spouse or your children or other friends or loved ones, are a horrible things to see. I can only imagine what it would be like to get that way. And a fire in a house, is indiscriminate, doesn't care who, what, or why, it consumes everything it possibly can.
In closing, I suppose when people stop dying, houses and businesses quit burning down, technology ceases to advance, then we may see the NEC stop being revised every 3 years. Who knows, one day all the possible factors may be accounted for and there will be no changes. Ha ha ha Really.
PS Arc Fault Circuit Interuptors are required on outlets in bedrooms, this means plugs and lights,as well as Living Rooms, Dining Rooms, Bathrooms, Hallways, dens, pantries, pretty much all electrical circuits, and I believe the laundry and kitchen were holdouts in the last issue. I recieved an update from the NFPA recently where they are considering changing this, so just about all the electrical outlets in a dwelling will be required to be AFCI protected. But I will verify and post as info is available.
I know, I can hear the moaning already, but the same thing occured when GFI's were introduced, and now they are common. Realistically, I couldn't begin to estimate the number of lives they have saved. Look at AFCI's as the same benefit for your property.
Final point, tamper proof is for all the little ones running around that go from crawling to vroom. And specifically the tendency the tykes have to putting objects just about anywhere you can imagine. Personally, back in 1964 when cord caps did not include a handle area I personally used one of my moms good spoons to try to pry a plug from a tight receptalcle when 5 year old tugging did not pull the plug from whatever it was I was not supposed to be messing with from the wall. I was very lucky as when I shoved that spoon between the plug and receptacle it contacted both prongs and pow I had myself a little arcflash, arcweld, knocked on my proverbial in trouble now kiester. An AFCI would have tripped offline far quicker than the fuse that had to pop. And not just time but also the type of arc is read by the device. They are a good thing for us even though you don't know it yet. And they will get cheaper as use increases. Just like anything but energy.
I will update info as I either verify or recieve it.
Consider this. Autos in the USA were not equipped with seatbelts until I believe the middle 60's. I remember my dad installing them on our old Rambler wagon. How many of you put your children in the car and do not buckle them into either a car seat, a booster seat, or if big enough a seatbelt alone. We do it to protect those which we cherish. I bet you wouldn't blink twice about a few bucks for that extra fancy paint or carpet. Think about it. Other than the natural gas, the only thing in your house capable of destroying your and all you know is the electrical potential available for our convenience. Think about it.
I will verify my facts and issue a note if I skipped or misquoted an item. This info is pre coffee couldn't sleep recalled so I will verify and post if different...