House was built in the early to mid 60's, Two story twin in NE Philadelphia. I opened up the walls and ceiling in the three bedrooms upstairs to add insulation, swap out outlets and switches, and installed ceiling fans. I will be the first to admit electricity is NOT my best friend.
I purchased a Klein non contact electrical tester, (red and beeping = hot, solid green = dead). I turn on all the lights in the dining room and kitchen and proceed to turn off circuit breakers until the lights go out. I take the tester to the four wires/cables that I know run the kitchen and dining room. One side of the cables/wires is red and beeping and the other side is green?! I turn the breakers back on and test the cables/wires again and get the same results only opposite sides?
From what I have read and remember from HS shop class if you KILL the breaker you are suppose to KILL the power? Am I missing something? Using the tester wrong? Or am I a complete IDIOT? :huh:
Victory Brewing Company West Chester. Yes you can just make sure the wires are all separated when you turn the power on. Can not give exact location CIA operative, just outside Philly Levittown, PA. Your son sounds like he knows what to do.
If not post back here there are guys on here that really know what's going on. Lot's of pro's that help out.
Victory Brewing Company West Chester. Yes you can just make sure the wires are all separated when you turn the power on. Can not give exact location CIA operative, just outside Philly Levittown, PA. Your son sounds like he knows what to do.
If not post back here there are guys on here that really know what's going on. Lot's of pro's that help out.
LOL knew you had to be close! Although had a guy in Navy bootcamp that would tell you 'about" where you were from just by the food you said you liked! haha
House was built in the early to mid 60's, Two story twin in NE Philadelphia. I opened up the walls and ceiling in the three bedrooms upstairs to add insulation, swap out outlets and switches, and installed ceiling fans. I will be the first to admit electricity is NOT my best friend.
I purchased a Klein non contact electrical tester, (red and beeping = hot, solid green = dead). I turn on all the lights in the dining room and kitchen and proceed to turn off circuit breakers until the lights go out. I take the tester to the four wires/cables that I know run the kitchen and dining room. One side of the cables/wires is red and beeping and the other side is green?! I turn the breakers back on and test the cables/wires again and get the same results only opposite sides?
From what I have read and remember from HS shop class if you KILL the breaker you are suppose to KILL the power? Am I missing something? Using the tester wrong? Or am I a complete IDIOT? :huh:
You said four wires?
Perhaps there are multiple breakers.
I have one of those testers (less respected brand) and I know it gives me funny false positives sometimes.
Mine has never given me a false negative(except when the battery was dead)
A7, I understand and I guess I am trying to use it both ways?! The MAIN reason I got the tester was to make sure the outlets and switches were dead before I installed new ones. (got bit once don't wish to repeat haha) Second was to see which outlets went to which breakers. But right now I am SOOOOO confused!!!
When the NCVD gives weird readings, get out the voltmeter. I usually double check with a voltmeter before digging into wiring anyway. I have that same NCVD, and I tend to refer to it as my "idiot stick" because it does give false positives sometimes.
You can be reading phantom or induction voltage. Circuits with no connected load can fool those tic testers to indicate the presence of juice, simply by being installed adjacent to another hot wire.
One way to minimize this effect is to leave a load connected to the circuit(s) in question. That is, leave a light turned on, plug in a lamp, or something similar to connect a real load. The phantom reading will disappear on dead circuits with a connected load.
You can be reading phantom or induction voltage. Circuits with no connected load can fool those tic testers to indicate the presence of juice, simply by being installed adjacent to another hot wire.
One way to minimize this effect is to leave a load connected to the circuit(s) in question. That is, leave a light turned on, plug in a lamp, or something similar to connect a real load. The phantom reading will disappear on dead circuits with a connected load.
Thank you ALL for your help, I will try this tonight when I get done work!
KBsparky, JUST so I have this straight, (as I said electricity is NOT my friend wiring confuses the out of me) IF I turn a light on in the kitchen, (it actually runs off the dining room light) and LEAVE it on, shut off the breaker, that should eliminate the false reading? Sorry I don't understand? :huh:
I just want to be able to replace switches/outlets/and add a ceiling fan WITHOUT getting bit! LOL :thumbup: See this is why electricians get paid the big bucks! and also why I DON'T do anything more than switches and outlets!
I know that some of the outlets, (usually one in every room) is controled by a switch, is it possible this could have ANYTHING to do with my issue? I know I am grapsing at straws, but my electrical knowledge is limited and I am just trying to understand?
Just sit back and relax eat a cheese steak or hoagie, wash it down with a Victory Golden Monkey while your eating your soft pretzel with mustard. Go buy a cheap tester for 15$ use the test leads to make sure its dead. Have a cup of coffee with a tastykake. Finish the job.
Just sit back and relax eat a cheese steak or hoagie, wash it down with a Victory Golden Monkey while your eating your soft pretzel with mustard. Go buy a cheap tester for 15$ use the test leads to make sure its dead. Have a cup of coffee with a tastykake. Finish the job.
LOL
Ok Coldiron, where are you from? You obvisouly are from here, know somebody here, or have visited here! :thumbup: Cause you got all the food right! Although I must admit the Victory Golden Monkey threw me?
BUT what I need to do is test the lines WITHOUT the outlets! Will that voltmeter do it? Never used one, but my son just informed me he has one and DOES know how to use it!
I agree ,I would buy a cheap basic multimeter for $10 or so. It will be your best friend when doing outlets. I replaced 90% of the outlets in my house and could not imagine having done it without that multimeter.
Your breakers could be set up funny too, my house is from 1930 so it's probably a bit "worse" in my house. For example when I shut off all the kitchen breakers, it takes out one of the outlets in the dining room as well......
Some test instruments can give false positives,
especially those with high impedances.
Even digital multimeters can give false readings.
Use a test lamp or an anologue voltmeter.
House was built in the early to mid 60's, Two story twin in NE Philadelphia. I opened up the walls and ceiling in the three bedrooms upstairs to add insulation, swap out outlets and switches, and installed ceiling fans. I will be the first to admit electricity is NOT my best friend.
I purchased a Klein non contact electrical tester, (red and beeping = hot, solid green = dead). I turn on all the lights in the dining room and kitchen and proceed to turn off circuit breakers until the lights go out. I take the tester to the four wires/cables that I know run the kitchen and dining room. One side of the cables/wires is red and beeping and the other side is green?! I turn the breakers back on and test the cables/wires again and get the same results only opposite sides?
From what I have read and remember from HS shop class if you KILL the breaker you are suppose to KILL the power? Am I missing something? Using the tester wrong? Or am I a complete IDIOT? :huh:
I did use a voltmeter last night kind of. What I mean is I tested the outlets "HOT" and was averaging around 122 v. There isn't alot of light in the house, (only the lamps I carry from room to room) so I had to settle on figuring out which outlets were on which breakers. (for last night anyway) I plan on replacing outlets/switches/and boxes this weekend, DURING the DAY when I have light. I will then be able to use the voltmeter to ensure they are dead. I am finding that some breakers have more on than others. (for example breaker 4 has living room, and two upstairs bedrooms) Should I rerun new lines? (terrifying thought for me) What I would LOVE to have is each room on their own breaker, but have no idea how to go about it?
Thank You All for all the help and input! :thumbsup:
Sometime it don't hurt to have different rooms on one breaker. EX: say you have two bedrooms upstairs one breaker trips the entire upstairs is dark. If you feed both rooms with two breakers with a mix of outlets and switches when a breaker trips you are not in the dark totally. You can always label your outlets and breakers with a label maker telling you which space the breaker is. Just like commercial and industrial apps.
Cold, actually from the two bedrooms, there is one outlet in each room that is on a different breaker, I guess that is why so if the breaker trips you won't be in the dark?
How could I trace the lines to seperate at least get a couple of those lines off to other breakers? For example my hallway light is on that same line, so IF the breaker were to trip it would be the 2 front bedrooms AND the hallway that would be out?
How could I trace the lines to seperate at least get a couple of those lines off to other breakers? For example my hallway light is on that same line, so IF the breaker were to trip it would be the 2 front bedrooms AND the hallway that would be out?
Before I started on my outlets I made it my mission to make a detailed list of what exactly each breaker shut off. I used a super advanced technique - you should be able to do the same as well.
For the outlets, what I did was plug in a clock radio and plug my ipod into it and pick a good tune. Crank the volume and go downstairs to the breaker panel and start flipping until the music stopped. (I'd recommend unplugging sensitive equipment like computers, TV's , cable boxes etc before an operation like this.
For the lightbulbs what I did was call my dad who happened to be in town over (a brother or a wife for that matter would work just as well in this scenario). I parked my dad in the room in question w/ a beer and went downstairs and started flipping breakers. When I hit the right one he would yell "THAT'S IT".
:thumbup:
I'm thinking you got a multi-wire branch circuit going on. I'm guessing it is that nob and tube wiring, single conductor with cloth covering? The safest bet I could tell you is go to your local Lowes or home depot and for around $50 buy yourself a circuit tracer and adapter kit. I use mine all the time. All you do for the outlets, plug the transmitter in with the power on, and the light should be red. take the receiver to the panel and go through the breakers until it stops beeping. turn that breaker off and that circuit should be shut off, but check it to be safe. for switches and lights the adapter kit comes with a lamp socket screw in adapter, and a female plug with clips on the end to clip on the wires. just plug the transmitter into those, clip the clips on the wire. that's all there is to it!
" What I would LOVE to have is each room on their own breaker, but have no idea how to go about it?"
Having each room on its own circuit would be ideal,
But might not be as easy as you think,
Could also cost much more, due to extra cable required.
Perhaps when you figure out where each outlet gets
it power from, you should write it on a list and put it inside
the door of the breaker panel, so future problems are minimised.
" What I would LOVE to have is each room on their own breaker, but have no idea how to go about it?"
Perhaps when you figure out where each outlet gets
it power from, you should write it on a list and put it inside
the door of the breaker panel, so future problems are minimised.
House was built in the early to mid 60's, Two story twin in NE Philadelphia. I opened up the walls and ceiling in the three bedrooms upstairs to add insulation, swap out outlets and switches, and installed ceiling fans. I will be the first to admit electricity is NOT my best friend.
I purchased a Klein non contact electrical tester, (red and beeping = hot, solid green = dead). I turn on all the lights in the dining room and kitchen and proceed to turn off circuit breakers until the lights go out. I take the tester to the four wires/cables that I know run the kitchen and dining room. One side of the cables/wires is red and beeping and the other side is green?! I turn the breakers back on and test the cables/wires again and get the same results only opposite sides?
From what I have read and remember from HS shop class if you KILL the breaker you are suppose to KILL the power? Am I missing something? Using the tester wrong? Or am I a complete IDIOT? :huh:
Most likely residual Voltage. Like someone else mentioned. Those meters are not that good for troubleshooting
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