My Electrician Friend... - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-20-2008, 01:13 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


must have been in LaLa land the day we pulled the cables from my house panel to my shop (3#2's about 60ft. in 1 1/2" pvc). At the time I didn't know diddly about sub-panels and whatnot. He forgot to add a ground. It was no picnic pulling/feeding the #2's and the conduit looks pretty full to me so I don't see sneeking the ground in is going to happen without a lot of pain. Any suggestions? Is it ok just to bury another conduit with the ground or should I bite the bullet and yank the cables and start over?
Thanks in advance.

Advertisement

rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 01:32 PM   #2
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,423
Rewards Points: 2,508
Default

My Electrician friend...


Pull all the cables out, and size up to a 2" Conduit. 1 1/2 is on the small size for #2.

Advertisement

gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 01:40 PM   #3
Power Gen/RS Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 751
Rewards Points: 500
Default

My Electrician friend...


THWN wiring? Yeah, 1.5" may be a little small esp. if there are a lot of bends (you don't have over 360 deg, do you?). You cannot install another conduit for the ground; all conductors associated with the feeder must be in the same raceway. You could for the heck of it try to pull the ground wire (nothing lost).
__________________
Well, now, there's what's right and what's right and never the twain shall meet.
BigJimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:06 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


Ouch, that was like a stake in my heart! I'm going to try sugestion #2 and sneek in the wire. It has 2 90 sweeps. Thanks for the info.
rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:08 PM   #5
Master Electrician
 
JohnJ0906's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 332
Rewards Points: 250
Default

My Electrician friend...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyjames View Post
must have been in LaLa land the day we pulled the cables from my house panel to my shop (3#2's about 60ft. in 1 1/2" pvc). At the time I didn't know diddly about sub-panels and whatnot. He forgot to add a ground. It was no picnic pulling/feeding the #2's and the conduit looks pretty full to me so I don't see sneeking the ground in is going to happen without a lot of pain. Any suggestions? Is it ok just to bury another conduit with the ground or should I bite the bullet and yank the cables and start over?
Thanks in advance.
Is this a detached building?
Are there no other metallic paths between the buildings? (water pipe, gas, intercom, telephone, coax, etc)
Is your jurisdiction on the 2005 or previous National Electric Code?

If you answer "yes" to all 3 questions, you still have a legal install.
__________________
John from Baltimore
One Day at a Time
"Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else"
"The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten"
JohnJ0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:12 PM   #6
Power Gen/RS Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 751
Rewards Points: 500
Default

My Electrician friend...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyjames View Post
Ouch, that was like a stake in my heart! I'm going to try sugestion #2 and sneek in the wire. It has 2 90 sweeps. Thanks for the info.
JOOC, what is the size of the breaker that is feeding this shop?
__________________
Well, now, there's what's right and what's right and never the twain shall meet.
BigJimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:17 PM   #7
Power Gen/RS Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 751
Rewards Points: 500
Default

My Electrician friend...


One other thing...

It may be possible to tie a rope or mule line to one of the #2's, pull that conductor out and then use the rope to pull it, along with your ground, through the pipe. If it is jammed though, you'll probably have to pull all three back out (and pull a rope in as you do). When you guys pulled in the 3-#2's originally, did you use any pulling lubricant? Make sure whatever you wind up doing that you have someone at one end to pull and a helper at the other end to feed the conductors in. You can buy a bottle of lube at Lowes/HD.

Good luck!
Jimmy
__________________
Well, now, there's what's right and what's right and never the twain shall meet.
BigJimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:37 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJ0906 View Post
Is this a detached building?
Are there no other metallic paths between the buildings? (water pipe, gas, intercom, telephone, coax, etc)
Is your jurisdiction on the 2005 or previous National Electric Code?

If you answer "yes" to all 3 questions, you still have a legal install.

Yes, detached
Yes, no other mechanicals from house to shop.
Actually, this install was done at least 8 years ago, so I don't even know how to answer that.
rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:39 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimmy View Post
JOOC, what is the size of the breaker that is feeding this shop?
100 amp breaker.
rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:43 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimmy View Post
One other thing...

It may be possible to tie a rope or mule line to one of the #2's, pull that conductor out and then use the rope to pull it, along with your ground, through the pipe. If it is jammed though, you'll probably have to pull all three back out (and pull a rope in as you do). When you guys pulled in the 3-#2's originally, did you use any pulling lubricant? Make sure whatever you wind up doing that you have someone at one end to pull and a helper at the other end to feed the conductors in. You can buy a bottle of lube at Lowes/HD.

Good luck!
Jimmy
I think we did but I'm not 100% sure on the use of lube. I think the logical way to approach this is to try your first suggestion and if that doesn't work go with the second. If none of the above then dig it all up and start over. Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.
rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:52 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


Or should I just leave it all the way it is? It would be a major project redoing everything, and like John from Baltimore suggested it's a legal install. If so what about grounding the sub-panel?
rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 04:08 PM   #12
Master Electrician
 
JohnJ0906's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 332
Rewards Points: 250
Default

My Electrician friend...


In the sub panel, the neutrals (whites) and grounds (bare and green) should be bonded together - usually in the same bus bar - the same as the main service.
You also need a ground rod, or other grounding electrode.

This is a legal method, until the 2008 Code.
__________________
John from Baltimore
One Day at a Time
"Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else"
"The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten"
JohnJ0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 04:25 PM   #13
Cow
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 116
Rewards Points: 75
Default

My Electrician friend...


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Pull all the cables out, and size up to a 2" Conduit. 1 1/2 is on the small size for #2.
Poor advice.

You didn't ask when the installation was performed to see if it met code when installed. And you want him to replace his existing conduit even though an 1.5" pvc can hold up to 6 #2 wires??

Rustyjames, follow John's advice. This used to be a VERY common installation.
Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 04:26 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


John and Cow,

Thank you, you made my day!

Last edited by rustyjames; 07-20-2008 at 07:34 PM.
rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 04:33 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 270
Default

My Electrician friend...


I was thinking (I tend to be somewhat obessive/compulsive about doing the simplest projects). Should I try to see if I can run the ground in the raceway or just leave it and go finish one of the other many projects I have going on?

Advertisement

rustyjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
complicating-updating new box for client, electrician messed it up-pics included Kraze Electrical 29 11-18-2012 10:14 PM
help electrician failed to show.NEWB post gotsig Electrical 25 05-26-2008 10:28 PM
electrician sticker bullet Electrical 10 02-24-2008 11:49 AM
North Carolina Electrician assistance please buloni Electrical 2 12-03-2005 09:07 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts