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Old 02-20-2008, 03:58 PM   #1
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Murray 20 space


I have a 200A main murray load center LC220PC that has 20 spaces. If I am reading correctly I can actually use 40 circuits with this? I currently have 4 open spaces and I plan on adding a small addition with 2 15 amp circuits for lights and recep, one for whole house interconnected smokes, and I would also like 2 220 lines for baseboard heaters. I would like to use the type MH-T twins in a few places in the panel to configure it so that I can wire the addition and leave 2 blank spaces.

Is there any problem with exceeding 20 circuits in this panel? I can see that it may get a bit cramped and will require neat routing, I can also see that the ground bar will fill up pretty quick.

I would like some opinions on doing this a safety is the number one concern. I would consider a sub panel but the utility room is cramped and adding a second panel would require it be mounted above a clothes dryer so basically it's either use the twins or swap the panel for a 40 space.

I thank you for your help
Andy

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Last edited by LS1GUY; 02-20-2008 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:21 PM   #2
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Murray 20 space


first off the 2 double poles required for the 2 220 circuits will take up the 4 spots left because as far as I know they dont make/ can't make slim DP breakers.

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Old 02-20-2008, 05:51 PM   #3
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Murray 20 space


Are you sure that is not a LC020PC?
I can't find your panel listed at the murray web site.
I'm sure you will not be able to add the slim breakers to this panel.
You are stuck with the 4 slots, or adding a subpanel.
Here is the murray catalog site
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...31/0/01_04.pdf
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:26 PM   #4
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Murray 20 space


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Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
Are you sure that is not a LC020PC?
I can't find your panel listed at the murray web site.
I'm sure you will not be able to add the slim breakers to this panel.
You are stuck with the 4 slots, or adding a subpanel.
Here is the murray catalog site
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...31/0/01_04.pdf

Whoops, It is an LC220PC . As for the other post, I am aware that the 220 ckts will require more space. I was thinking of placing all other 110 ckts in the house on twins to help make space.

Thanks for the responses thus far, I look forward more
andy
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:29 PM   #5
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Murray 20 space


This is a 20 space panel only. No twins allowed
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:45 PM   #6
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Murray 20 space


being the inquisitive type I like to break things open and see whats inside . .that being said . . .I consider using the slim twins ONLY when it is an light and occasional load/loads .. .a matter of contact area/ heat etc inside the slims . . . . .

before adding . .ANY . .new loads . .have you determined what total load you are using compared to service available? . .and THAT . .gemerally shouldnt run above 80% of max available . .lest you want to start experiencing tripping breakers . . . .

most times . . .especially in modern homes . . .we will use the DISTRIBUTION available ( IE the number of available breaker lands ) before
we hit the 80% of service available . . .adding some light loads . .not a MAJOR impact on the service available . .electric baseboard heating? . .read above and get a solid bench mark BEFORE adding that much draw


cant forget the poor fella and his wife who had contractor install pool / spa / bar-B-que . . . . . . .then . . . . . discovering they did NOT have the
servoce available to run pumps...motors etc

could have called me before they signed the deal . . .pool nstaller
now sends them to an electrician to perform a miracle . . .Oh man . .
. . .yeah the miracle was a larger service and larger panel
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:52 PM   #7
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This is a 20 space panel only. No twins allowed
Okay, I appreciate the response. Not doubting you just trying to understand thats why I asked prior to doing. On the lable inside the panel type MH-T is acceptable, is that not a twin? Again, just trying to figure this out,

As for the total load, 200 amp service 900 sq foot ranch on a slab, 300 sq ft addition. only loads new from the old 60 amp service are the two baseboard heaters. I have just used a lot of spaces on my kitchen after the 200 was installed back in 98. Like i said, no other new loads just spreading them out. At one time back on the old service 3 rooms on one ckt, entire kitchen on another ect....

I am not looking to pack 40 ckts in there like I believe I can, just looking for 30 with two extra blanks
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:20 PM   #8
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That number is not considered a twin. It is two circuits contained in a single 1" space. You could also us a quad breaker. I do not use murray, so this info is coming from there website.
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...EE/0/02_07.pdf
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
That number is not considered a twin. It is two circuits contained in a single 1" space. You could also us a quad breaker. I do not use murray, so this info is coming from there website.
http://www.murrayconnect.com/NR/rdon...EE/0/02_07.pdf
Well, thats a start, I did not understand the difference, I thought that was considered a twin? Well, same question but using the MH-T breakers. Thanks again for the responses. Also if you would like to contine educating me what is the difference between that and a twin?
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:27 PM   #10
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Murray 20 space


Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1GUY View Post
Well, thats a start, I did not understand the difference, I thought that was considered a twin? Well, same question but using the MH-T breakers. Thanks again for the responses. Also if you would like to contine educating me what is the difference between that and a twin?
Good question. I consider them 1/2' breakers. Not really sure I have a good answer for you.
I would consider the MH-T a tandom breaker.
I missed the fact you stated MH-T in your first post.
Look at the pdf I linked and you will find some quads that can help you acheive your goal.
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Last edited by jbfan; 02-20-2008 at 07:33 PM. Reason: More info
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:19 PM   #11
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Murray 20 space


A) Stay away from quads. Twin up your 15 amp circuits and use full size breakers for the higher draw circuits. In doing so, be cautious if you have any 120V 3 wire circuits. They have to land on separate legs.


B) Add a sub panel using two of your 4 remaining spaces.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:24 PM   #12
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Murray 20 space


Ditch the Murray panel and install a good 30 or 40 space panel. I use tandem breakers to get out of a jam, temporarly untill a real fix can be done, no way i would put that many of them in my house.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:26 PM   #13
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Ditch the Murray panel and install a good 30 or 40 space panel. I use tandem breakers to get out of a jam, temporarly untill a real fix can be done, no way i would put that many of them in my house.
I am really thinking about that one but is there a problem staying with murray? Reason I ask is there is a nice savings being able to use all existime breakers in a new panel. I appreciate the response, still would like to here a few more sparky's chime in.

Thanks again guys
Andy
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
is there a problem staying with murray?

Does your main breaker look like this in red or black? Lots of issues with these. You are on the border line as far as deciding whether to change the panel. Is it just a panel? Main breaker panel? Combo meter/panel?

Changing out a simple panel is a piece of cake but having a few twins on the general lighting/outlet circuits is not too bad.

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Old 02-20-2008, 09:40 PM   #15
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Murray 20 space


Not to change the subject but I have that breaker in brown (Murray panel- installed 1971) for 150a service. Are there problems with that one?

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