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Old 08-18-2009, 07:58 AM   #1
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Can I wire both shower lights/switch and a non-GFCI receptacle from the load side of single GFCI receptacle? The outlet is for digital shower interface.

Additionally, can the feed come in between two branches of outlets? Sort of left and right side of the room? It's not really practical for me to go serially all the way around the bathroom.

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Old 08-18-2009, 08:41 AM   #2
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Generally speaking you can wire other loads to load side of the bathroom GFCI receptacle as long as a loads are located in the bathroom . For example it's common to GFCI protect additional receptacle outlets and exhaust fans in this manner.

One thing to keep in mind though, many digital shower controls (ex. Kohler) have a separate power supply that plugs into a "GFCI electrical outlet within the stud framing".

Their are two potential installation issues here:

1) The wording is ambiguous; does it mean 1) a "GFCI protected receptacle outlet" - in which case the outlet could be protected by a upstream GFCI receptacle outlet or circuit breaker or does it mean 2) "a GFCI receptacle outlet" - in which the power supply has to be plugged in to a GFCI receptacle outlet. So you need to check with your local AHJ to determine what they will accept.

2) If the receptacle outlet is inside the stud wall access has to be provided to allow it to be serviced and inspected, and the installation has to be done in such a manner as to provide this access.

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Old 08-18-2009, 09:17 AM   #3
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


I would interpret that as a receptacle with a standard cover plate on the wall surface and with GFCI protection either within or upstream. Notably as opposed to being plugged into an extension cord.

The cord would have to be stretched around the corner to the receptacle outside the tub. A receptacle high on the wall may be installed specifically for this purpose.

I have never seen a receptacle recessed in the wall with a watertight cover where there was room inside to plug a transformer unit (commonly called a wall-wart(tm?) ) associated with an electronic appliance.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 08-18-2009 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:40 AM   #4
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


It is indeed Kohler DTV in my case and the do call for outlet within the stud framing. In my case it's going in the wall which is between the shower and the closet and I will have an access panel for both the valve and the outlet. My plan was to put both the shower lights and DTV on a GFCI outlet elsewhere in the bathroom (I was thinking the one near the pedestal sink/toilet area).
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:49 AM   #5
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
I would interpret that as a receptacle with a standard cover plate on the wall surface and with GFCI protection either within or upstream. Notably as opposed to being plugged into an extension cord...
The way are set up there is a control unit (sort of like typical control for electric resistance bathroom floor heat system, but without a built-in GFCI) which is powered by a separate (120V AC) a cord connected power supply.

From the control unit wiring runs to a solenoid operated manifold (value) also behind the drywall.

The wiring into and out of the control unit is brought in through the back or bottom of the unit behind the drywall, and of course you can't run the power cord for the power supply through the drywall and plug it into a serface mounted receptacle outlet - the entire assembly is intended to be installed behind the wall surface (similar to a standard jetted tub installation where you access the motor and GFCI receptacle outlet through an access panel).

(Added later: See bimmerracer's pic above for an example)

It would be clear to electrician what needs to be done, DIYs however can and sometimes do assume that you can just drywall over the whole thing without providing access.

When get back to the office all see if I can link to a set of installation instructions, but they should be easy GOOGLE up in the meantime.

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Old 08-18-2009, 09:57 AM   #6
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Also, if I have two GFCI outlets wired serially, can they each have their own protected load side?
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:51 PM   #7
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerRacer View Post
Also, if I have two GFCI outlets wired serially, can they each have their own protected load side?

I think what you are asking is if you could have multiple GFCI outlets wired in parallel (for example, the hot and neutral conductors pigtailed off the circuit to line side of each), and them have additional loads connected to the load side of one or both.

The answer is yes, but things can get confusing when one of the GFCIs trips, something else stops working, and the occupants are wondering why... as they GFCI they think is controlling the load has not tripped.

One other comment: likely you building a pretty high-end bathroom, perhaps with multiple sinks/vanities.

If so I like to put outlets serving each vanity on a separate circuit, because to 1300 W hair dryer is running simultaneously are going to overload an individual circuit.

If the was my house what I would probably do is run a 20 amp circuit for each vanity, with GFCI protection at each outlet sort was easy to see what had triopped have a separate circuit powering my ceiling lights, exhaust fans, and digital shower control, GFCI protected by wall mounter a blank face (" deadfront") GFCI:



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Old 08-18-2009, 03:52 PM   #8
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerRacer View Post
Also, if I have two GFCI outlets wired serially, can they each have their own protected load side?
I think what you are asking is if you could have multiple GFCI outlets wired in parallel (for example, the hot and neutral conductors pigtailed off the circuit to line side of each), and them have additional loads connected to the load side of one or both.

The answer is yes, but things can get confusing when one of the GFCIs trips, something else stops working, and the occupants are wondering why.... when they GFCI they think is controlling the load has not tripped.

One other comment: likely you building a pretty high-end bathroom, perhaps with multiple sinks/vanities.

If so I like to put outlets serving each vanity on a separate circuit, because two hair dryer running simultaneously are going to overload an individual circuit.

If the was my house what I would do is run a 20 amp circuit for each vanity, with GFCI protection at each outlet so it was was easy to see which had tripped, and have a separate circuit powering the ceiling lights, exhaust fans, and digital shower control, GFCI protected by wall mounted blank face ("dead front") GFCI:



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Last edited by Michael Thomas; 08-22-2009 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:47 PM   #9
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Michael,

Thanks for the reply.

Whats the reason for pigtails?
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:06 PM   #10
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


pigtails are put in so that if the device that is pigtailed becomes defective, it will prevent the loss of power to any devices downstream of the defective device.
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Old 08-29-2009, 12:44 PM   #11
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Any problems with this setup? Lights and outlet on dead front GFCI

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Old 08-29-2009, 12:47 PM   #12
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Looks good to me. Them are some fancy pants connectors though!
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Old 08-29-2009, 12:50 PM   #13
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Do they not have them in your Canadian wilderness? :P
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Old 08-29-2009, 01:18 PM   #14
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Most likely, but they won't order them for where I work.....they want the wires twisted together, and wire nuts used. I never bother to use anything else, when I end up with a pocket full of them at the end of the day......
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Old 08-29-2009, 01:23 PM   #15
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Multiple items on load side of GFCI?


Those fancy pants connectors are fundamentally push-in-and-stick type aka backstab type connectors.

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