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-   -   Multiple items on load side of GFCI? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/multiple-items-load-side-gfci-51151/)

BimmerRacer 08-18-2009 07:58 AM

Multiple items on load side of GFCI?
 
Can I wire both shower lights/switch and a non-GFCI receptacle from the load side of single GFCI receptacle? The outlet is for digital shower interface.

Additionally, can the feed come in between two branches of outlets? Sort of left and right side of the room? It's not really practical for me to go serially all the way around the bathroom.

Michael Thomas 08-18-2009 08:41 AM

Generally speaking you can wire other loads to load side of the bathroom GFCI receptacle as long as a loads are located in the bathroom . For example it's common to GFCI protect additional receptacle outlets and exhaust fans in this manner.

One thing to keep in mind though, many digital shower controls (ex. Kohler) have a separate power supply that plugs into a "GFCI electrical outlet within the stud framing".

Their are two potential installation issues here:

1) The wording is ambiguous; does it mean 1) a "GFCI protected receptacle outlet" - in which case the outlet could be protected by a upstream GFCI receptacle outlet or circuit breaker or does it mean 2) "a GFCI receptacle outlet" - in which the power supply has to be plugged in to a GFCI receptacle outlet. So you need to check with your local AHJ to determine what they will accept.

2) If the receptacle outlet is inside the stud wall access has to be provided to allow it to be serviced and inspected, and the installation has to be done in such a manner as to provide this access.

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I’m paid to be suspicious…


http://paragoninspects.com/images/10...r-at-clamp.jpg

AllanJ 08-18-2009 09:17 AM

I would interpret that as a receptacle with a standard cover plate on the wall surface and with GFCI protection either within or upstream. Notably as opposed to being plugged into an extension cord.

The cord would have to be stretched around the corner to the receptacle outside the tub. A receptacle high on the wall may be installed specifically for this purpose.

I have never seen a receptacle recessed in the wall with a watertight cover where there was room inside to plug a transformer unit (commonly called a wall-wart(tm?) ) associated with an electronic appliance.

BimmerRacer 08-18-2009 09:40 AM

It is indeed Kohler DTV in my case and the do call for outlet within the stud framing. In my case it's going in the wall which is between the shower and the closet and I will have an access panel for both the valve and the outlet. My plan was to put both the shower lights and DTV on a GFCI outlet elsewhere in the bathroom (I was thinking the one near the pedestal sink/toilet area).
http://jkuper.smugmug.com/photos/618414645_jnuGy-L.jpg

Michael Thomas 08-18-2009 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanJ (Post 316008)
I would interpret that as a receptacle with a standard cover plate on the wall surface and with GFCI protection either within or upstream. Notably as opposed to being plugged into an extension cord...

The way are set up there is a control unit (sort of like typical control for electric resistance bathroom floor heat system, but without a built-in GFCI) which is powered by a separate (120V AC) a cord connected power supply.

From the control unit wiring runs to a solenoid operated manifold (value) also behind the drywall.

The wiring into and out of the control unit is brought in through the back or bottom of the unit behind the drywall, and of course you can't run the power cord for the power supply through the drywall and plug it into a serface mounted receptacle outlet - the entire assembly is intended to be installed behind the wall surface (similar to a standard jetted tub installation where you access the motor and GFCI receptacle outlet through an access panel).

(Added later: See bimmerracer's pic above for an example)

It would be clear to electrician what needs to be done, DIYs however can and sometimes do assume that you can just drywall over the whole thing without providing access.

When get back to the office all see if I can link to a set of installation instructions, but they should be easy GOOGLE up in the meantime.

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I’m paid to be suspicious…

http://paragoninspects.com/images/10...ion-to-tub.jpg

BimmerRacer 08-18-2009 09:57 AM

Also, if I have two GFCI outlets wired serially, can they each have their own protected load side?

Michael Thomas 08-18-2009 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerRacer (Post 316030)
Also, if I have two GFCI outlets wired serially, can they each have their own protected load side?


I think what you are asking is if you could have multiple GFCI outlets wired in parallel (for example, the hot and neutral conductors pigtailed off the circuit to line side of each), and them have additional loads connected to the load side of one or both.

The answer is yes, but things can get confusing when one of the GFCIs trips, something else stops working, and the occupants are wondering why... as they GFCI they think is controlling the load has not tripped.

One other comment: likely you building a pretty high-end bathroom, perhaps with multiple sinks/vanities.

If so I like to put outlets serving each vanity on a separate circuit, because to 1300 W hair dryer is running simultaneously are going to overload an individual circuit.

If the was my house what I would probably do is run a 20 amp circuit for each vanity, with GFCI protection at each outlet sort was easy to see what had triopped have a separate circuit powering my ceiling lights, exhaust fans, and digital shower control, GFCI protected by wall mounter a blank face (" deadfront") GFCI:

http://solutions.cooperwiringdevices...20V_SM_110.jpg

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I’m paid to be suspicious…

http://paragoninspects.com/images/10...ck-in-wire.jpg

Michael Thomas 08-18-2009 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerRacer (Post 316030)
Also, if I have two GFCI outlets wired serially, can they each have their own protected load side?

I think what you are asking is if you could have multiple GFCI outlets wired in parallel (for example, the hot and neutral conductors pigtailed off the circuit to line side of each), and them have additional loads connected to the load side of one or both.

The answer is yes, but things can get confusing when one of the GFCIs trips, something else stops working, and the occupants are wondering why.... when they GFCI they think is controlling the load has not tripped.

One other comment: likely you building a pretty high-end bathroom, perhaps with multiple sinks/vanities.

If so I like to put outlets serving each vanity on a separate circuit, because two hair dryer running simultaneously are going to overload an individual circuit.

If the was my house what I would do is run a 20 amp circuit for each vanity, with GFCI protection at each outlet so it was was easy to see which had tripped, and have a separate circuit powering the ceiling lights, exhaust fans, and digital shower control, GFCI protected by wall mounted blank face ("dead front") GFCI:

http://solutions.cooperwiringdevices...20V_SM_110.jpg

----------------------------------------------------------
I’m paid to be suspicious…

http://paragoninspects.com/images/10...ck-in-wire.jpg

BimmerRacer 08-21-2009 04:47 PM

Michael,

Thanks for the reply.

Whats the reason for pigtails?

BCSparkyGirl 08-21-2009 05:06 PM

pigtails are put in so that if the device that is pigtailed becomes defective, it will prevent the loss of power to any devices downstream of the defective device.

BimmerRacer 08-29-2009 12:44 PM

Any problems with this setup? Lights and outlet on dead front GFCI

http://jkuper.smugmug.com/photos/633498149_KGTXn-L.jpg

BCSparkyGirl 08-29-2009 12:47 PM

:thumbsup:Looks good to me. Them are some fancy pants connectors though!

BimmerRacer 08-29-2009 12:50 PM

Do they not have them in your Canadian wilderness? :P

BCSparkyGirl 08-29-2009 01:18 PM

Most likely, but they won't order them for where I work.....they want the wires twisted together, and wire nuts used. I never bother to use anything else, when I end up with a pocket full of them at the end of the day......:whistling2:

AllanJ 08-29-2009 01:23 PM

Those fancy pants connectors are fundamentally push-in-and-stick type aka backstab type connectors.


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