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-   -   mounting octagonal old work box in 5/8" drywall?? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/mounting-octagonal-old-work-box-5-8-drywall-139539/)

rkg 04-07-2012 11:51 AM

mounting octagonal old work box in 5/8" drywall??
 
Hi,

I needed a shallow box with enough volume for the wiring required to hook up a cove heater (the box is in an exterior wall and I didn't want to have to chop the insulation), and found this:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051

This is supposedly an old work box, the volume is OK, and they won't stick enough through the drywall to involve removal of the insulation behind it
(this is a condo, and I'm trying hard not to mess with any "common elements" any more than I have to for obvious reasons). The problem is that this is going into 5/8" drywall, and I can't figure out how to secure it. Raco sells these clips:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051

but these seem to be designed for 1/2" drywall.

So, what is "normally" done in these situations - just use the clips, put some wood behind the drywall to screw the plaster ears into, or...?

Suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,

rkg
(Richard George)

gregzoll 04-07-2012 12:11 PM

What about going with a round Smartbox http://www.smartboxinc.com/

k_buz 04-07-2012 12:26 PM

The ears or tabs would to mount to the surface of the drywall in your situation. Unscrew the ears and turn them around.

The way the box is pictured, you would install the box then put the drywall over it.

Techy 04-07-2012 12:31 PM

i would use a 'f-clip' or 'madison bar', or 'switch box support'.

rkg 04-07-2012 01:21 PM

Thanks for all the replies so far.

The trouble with the smart box (and most old work boxes like that) is that they are pretty deep, and I was trying to not have to mess with the insulation in this particular wall.

K-buz - I'm confused by your answer - isn't the box as shown in the home depot ad already configured to be installed through existing drywall?

On the f-clips, I was thinking of using those originally, but when I laid them next to the box, it appeared that they were too wide to fit on any one side of this box.

Maybe I should just get a couple of their shallow expandable old work boxes, put them together and then use the f-clips :-/ the trouble was that this was even bigger and then I'd also have to fabricate a cover plate (as I basically just need a single round knockout to run a short length of armored cable to the heater :-/)

thanks,

rkg
(Richard George)

k_buz 04-07-2012 01:41 PM

Sorry, I saw your confusion with the different sizes of drywall, quickly looked at the picture and thought I saw something I didn't.

The box could be used in just about any size drywall. As was stated above Madison straps, AKA steamboats, f clips, hold its and any other number of names would be best for this situation, but they can be rather tricky to install with octagon boxes.

Can you post a link to the heater? What type of wire is being used to power the heater?

Depending on your answers, we might be able to find a better option for you.

sublime2 04-07-2012 01:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Something like this?

Attachment 48675

brric 04-07-2012 02:08 PM

Depending upon the wire sizes, why wouldn't you use a rectangular box?

rkg 04-07-2012 02:53 PM

Thanks for the reply - I've not worked with boxes with ears like this before (I usually
use one of the plastic boxes when I'm doing remodeling like this), and... I suppose I can kind of bend the f clip around one of the corners and stick one of the pieces that's supposed to wrap into the box through the plaster ear or something to use it. Seems like that would work, but again I've not used these before, so...

The manufacturer specified #12 wire for the heater (Its a radiant systems 1050 Watt 240V unit) - I was going to run 12/2 up to the box, and then either flexible metal conduit or armored cable off to the unit itself (they imply you can just run the romex directly into the unit, but this doesn't seem kosher to me, even if its only an inch or three of exposed romex).

If it did the volume calcs right, that means I need a box with a minimum of 13 in^3, though I usually add some to that because its a pain to deal with a box that full..

Again, I wanted to go shallow - the 1 1/2 inch deep box will stick barely enough past the drywall to get the cables in, allowing me not to have to mess with the insulation (which isn't exactly mine...).

Thanks agaiin,

rkg
(Richard George)


Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 893822)
Sorry, I saw your confusion with the different sizes of drywall, quickly looked at the picture and thought I saw something I didn't.

The box could be used in just about any size drywall. As was stated above Madison straps, AKA steamboats, f clips, hold its and any other number of names would be best for this situation, but they can be rather tricky to install with octagon boxes.

Can you post a link to the heater? What type of wire is being used to power the heater?

Depending on your answers, we might be able to find a better option for you.


rkg 04-07-2012 03:04 PM

Thanks for the reply. that was one option, just put together a couple of one gang remodeling boxes to get the necessary volume and shallow depth.

My problem with it was that there don't seem to be readily available cover plates for these "switch box" sized units designed to either ground to the box or have a hole for mounting conduit to them - I mean, I can just get a blank metal switch plate and punch a hole in it, but then you need to add wiring to bond to that, etc.

On the wire sizes, it needs to have 12/2 romex coming in and #12 wiring going out in either flexible metal conduit or an armored cable.

Thanks,

rkg
(Richard George)


Quote:

Originally Posted by brric (Post 893843)
Depending upon the wire sizes, why wouldn't you use a rectangular box?


gregzoll 04-07-2012 03:22 PM

How deep is this opening?

sublime2 04-07-2012 03:24 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Have you seen this?
This would work for you on a rectangle box.

gregzoll 04-07-2012 03:28 PM

Sublime, they are using a Octaganol box (ie Stop sign shaped), not a Rectangle box.

rkg 04-07-2012 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublime2 (Post 893900)
Have you seen this?
This would work for you on a rectangle box.

Oh yeah, I've seen/used a lot of these - again, the problem is that a simple rectangular box of the necessary volume (13 in^3 minimum if I volume calculation right) is too deep (for example the the 18 in^2 switch box is like
3 1/2" deep, which means I have to do something drastic to the insulation, etc., and the next size down (12.5 in^3 of volume) isn't big enough).

Its weird working on buildings where you own only the internal walls, underlayment and sheetrock...

thanks,

rkg

EDIT: It seemed like the octagonal was a good solution as I could find an old work box with enough volume that was still pretty shallow that you could readily find a cover plate for that was designed to be grounding (so I didn't have to do something weird to ground to (like Id'd have to if I ganged a couple of rectangular switch boxes to get the volume and then used a blank cover plate and punching a hole in it).).
(Richard George)

sublime2 04-07-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 893902)
Sublime, they are using a Octaganol box (ie Stop sign shaped), not a Rectangle box.

Yes i know.
But he stated that his reason for the octagonal box was because of the cover plate he would neeed to put over the box.(AC coming out the middle of it)
For what he's trying to do he could certainly use a rectangle box.

Quote:

My problem with it was that there don't seem to be readily available cover plates for these "switch box" sized units designed to either ground to the box or have a hole for mounting conduit to them


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