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Old 05-24-2011, 05:13 PM   #1
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Hi all,

I have a few questions maybe someone could help out with.
Several years ago an electrician put in a new 200A main panel for me and told me what to get to replace the fuse box in the garage. Well I got the stuff and installed it but the job never got finished. The garage is detached and if I remember right I pulled about 25 of wire.

The cable is an ESSEX 6-3G Type UF-B. The feeder breaker is a 60A 2 pole. The main is a Siemens 200A with plenty of room, and the sub panel is a 100A Siemens with a 100A main breaker that I guess will become a disconnect.

Now I am looking for information on how to hook this panel up. I have searched this forum and others until my eyes are sore but still dont have it straight. I am obviously not an electrician, but I did completely rewire my old house to code after the new main was in place (no 230V stuff). I took my time, learned what needed to be done, was careful inside the panel, and it passed inspection. I realize that that is no great accomplishment, and that I know very little.

Questions:
1. The electrician had me pick up a 60A breaker to put in the main box to feed this sub. I am now learning that #6 wire is for 50A. Is there some kind of feeder rule that says I can use a 60A breaker on this wire?

2. Should there be a place on my main panel (Siemens) for a 60A 2 pole breaker, or do I just add a lug on the neutral bar to accept the large wire and put the breaker where I wish?


3. I read that in the sub panel with a 4 wire setup the neutral and ground need to be separate. That would mean that the bar at the bottom tying the two bars together needs to be removed, anything else?

4. The ground strap should still be tied or bonded from the ground bar to the back of the sub panel. Im not sure about this part yet, but it seems to me this needs to be done to ground the metal box. Is this correct?

5. I have to install at least one ground rod at the sub panel and tie into the ground bar with a bare #6 wire. Do I need two ground rods as if this were a main?

I purchased a new Hobart 187 mig welder, and will run a 30A 2 pole breaker and #8 wire to the 50A receptacle. I will be running a 50 #8 extension cord from the receptacle to the welder. #10 is for 30A but I have #8 on hand. Sound OK? I may run another #8 wire single pole 30A for the compressor depending on which one I upgrade to. I have several 7 15 amp hand power tools, all outlets will be 20A, light circuits 15A, wire 12GA.


Loading on the new panel will be like this.
Lights, 15A table saw, 12A shop-vac on at the same time.
Lights, 15A chop saw, 12A shop-vac on at the same time.
Lights, 15A router, 12A shop-vac on at the same time.
Lights, 20.5 amp welder on at same time.

Generally no one works in the garage with me, and the shop-vac will be on a different circuit than the power tool that I happen to be running. If I have to, I will make sure the compressor does not come on while using anything else. Either way, the compressor will be on it's own cercuit as well.

I appreciate any input, and still may hire an electrician to hook this up if I am not 100% confident that what I am doing is correct. If I do hire someone at least I will know what is going on.

Does anyone know a good way to cut the jacket on this cable?


Thanks,
RG
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:42 PM   #2
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The electrician had me pick up a 60A breaker to put in the main box to feed this sub. I am now learning that #6 wire is for 50A. Is there some kind of feeder rule that says I can use a 60A breaker on this wire?

#6 UF is good for 55A you should be allowed to round up to the next standard size(60A)

2. Should there be a place on my main panel (Siemens) for a 60A 2 pole breaker, or do I just add a lug on the neutral bar to accept the large wire and put the breaker where I wish?

put the breaker anywhere in the main, correct.

3. I read that in the sub panel with a 4 wire setup the neutral and ground need to be separate. That would mean that the bar at the bottom tying the two bars together needs to be removed, anything else?

Bar at the bottom removed and bonding screw installed on ground side


4. The ground strap should still be tied or bonded from the ground bar to the back of the sub panel. I’m not sure about this part yet, but it seems to me this needs to be done to ground the metal box. Is this correct?

yes, this needs to be done

5. I have to install at least one ground rod at the sub panel and tie into the ground bar with a bare #6 wire. Do I need two ground rods as if this were a main?

only if detached from house, 2 rods will be required


I purchased a new Hobart 187 mig welder, and will run a 30A 2 pole breaker and #8 wire to the 50A receptacle. I will be running a 50’ #8 extension cord from the receptacle to the welder. #10 is for 30A but I have #8 on hand. Sound OK? I may run another #8 wire single pole 30A for the compressor depending on which one I upgrade to. I have several 7 – 15 amp hand power tools, all outlets will be 20A, light circuits 15A, wire 12GA.

#8 is fine for up to 40A at 60**C, but the welder may trip the 30A breaker on the higher heat settings


Last edited by Techy; 05-24-2011 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:46 PM   #3
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#1-You are good with the 60 amp breaker.
#2-There should be 2 spaces in the main panel for the 60 amp breaker to fit into.
The #6 wire will fit into the neutral bare with no trouble.
3-The bar needs to be removed, or you can buy a eperate ground bar.
The bar needs to be bonded to the metal of the panel.
4-Yes. Some panels come with a green screw the ties the bar to the panel. Whitchever bar has the green screw is for the grounds, and the other bar is for the neutrals.
5-Put 2 rods in.

Have fun stripping the uf cable.

Take a knife and slice down the cable, then pull the conductors apart.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:11 PM   #4
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above answer are right on
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Old 05-25-2011, 12:40 AM   #5
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I have a Millermatic 180 welder on a 30a breaker - have never dropped the breaker, even with high settings. YMMV of course. If you already have #8, why not put it on a 40a breaker?
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:07 AM   #6
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Hi all, thanks for the information.

Quote:
If you already have #8, why not put it on a 40a breaker?
I already have a 30A breaker too. I figured worst case I could buy a 40 if I did have probs.

By the way, I was looking at the 100A breaker in the sub panel and one of the hot screws was red or copper in color, the other silver. Does it really matter which hot goes to which screw in the sub, main, or receptacle? I can't see why it would.

Just out of curiosity, why don't these 230V applications (like the NEMA 650R) use neutral?

Thanks

Last edited by rdkng07; 05-25-2011 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkng07 View Post
Hi all, thanks for the information.



Just out of curiosity, why don't these 230V applications (like the NEMA 6-50R) use neutral?
They are for pure 240 volt, line to line loads; not 120/240 volts that has both line to line (240) and line to neutral (120) loads

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