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Old 11-11-2010, 10:57 AM   #1
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This is to add to a previous post, but I still find it to be important.

I've been told from everywhere that every Arc Fault breaker requires a dedicated nuetral line. Evidentally this isn't completely true. A Two pole can be used for 220/120v applications and can share a common nuetral between the two hot feeds.

http://www.arcadvisor.com/pdf/DEH-40456.pdf

Any feedback on this would be great...

Also, this is a VERY rough drawing and I should have done it in CAD, but if you take a dedicated circuit, and branch off to a switch for a light and share a nuetral between a outlet (two recepticals with one live hot and one switch live), will the arc fault breaker flip? I don't see how the nuetral would conflict with the Arc Fault because it would give the same feedback regardless of the nuetral configuration as long as the entire circuit is on a dedicated nuetral.



Last edited by npbsurfr; 11-11-2010 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:01 AM   #2
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2 pole arc faults are harder to find and cost much more.
A single pole arc fault does require it's own neutral and hot.
The switch and receptale drawing will work on an arc fault.

What brand panel do you have?

Since I just looked at the link, I assume you have a ge panel.

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Old 11-11-2010, 11:06 AM   #3
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By the way, I LOVE THAT SONG!

Honestly, I haven't even checked. It was installed about 25-30 years ago, before I bought the house. However, I've already installed one arch fault for the living room, wich I installed a TON of romex for the lighting. Again, I'm installing the arc fault just for extra security because romex gives ZERO protection. It's worth the extra $20-30 per breaker.

Also, because the house is 90ft in length (from the panel), I'm going to order some murphys two pole arc fault breakers. They can't be that much more, plus having to pull 1/3 less wire is a god send!!!
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:21 AM   #4
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If you have the room, you could add a small subpanel near the location you are going and add single poles from there.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:30 AM   #5
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I know jb has been replying but I thought I'd comment because it seems like you misuse the term shared neutral.
Quote:
I've been told from everywhere that every Arc Fault breaker requires a dedicated nuetral line. Evidentally this isn't completely true. A Two pole can be used for 220/120v applications and can share a common nuetral between the two hot feeds.
Your two pole breaker has a dedicated neutral that is shared. Both hots, if wired as a MWBC, have to have the neutral returned to breaker. The white wire is connected to the bus bar. You can't connect one to the bus bar.
In your drawing, you don't have a shared neutral, you just have a plain old parallel connected circuit. If you place this on an arc fault breaker, the entire circuit will be arc fault protected.
What does these mean?
Quote:
because romex gives ZERO protection
Quote:
I'm going to order some murphys two pole arc fault breakers.

Last edited by a7ecorsair; 11-11-2010 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:32 AM   #6
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The shared nuetral and the submitted diagram are both seperate questions / statements.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:36 AM   #7
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Yes, but you used the term share
Quote:
branch off to a switch for a light and share a nuetral between a outlet
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:37 AM   #8
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The house is almost 100 years old. There is minimal blocking for fire protection along the joists and studs and the framing would light up like a heap of news paper. I want as much protection as possible.

IMT or EMT, which the house has both conduits, is existing. However, I have added some recepticles / outlets / cans to bring up to code and comfort. Some of which I have used Romex. My point about Romex is if a rodent crawls into the walls / a nail or screw cuts the NM conduit and cuts into the bare wire, my whole house would go up in flames! Romex is zero protection compared to rigid.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a7ecorsair View Post
Yes, but you used the term share
Sorry, but we are both a little correct. The original statement deals with running two hots and a single nuetral at the panel.

The diagram is a different scenario which I've been told by my electrician, and others, that this would trip the arc fault because you're sharing a nuetral that is from two parallel hot lines. However, this circuit still has a dedicated nuetral for the single live load to the arc fault breaker.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:46 AM   #10
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OK, so now I understand you motive, but I don't get the comment about the two pole breaker.
Added: I think I understand, you have Murray breakers.

Last edited by a7ecorsair; 11-11-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:25 PM   #11
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Yes, they are murray. However GE is the same.

If I have two circuits running the length of the house, 90ft, and I'd rather run three wires instead of four, I can use a two pole Arc Fault. If I use a one pole arc fault, I would have to run four wires.

The two pole always the sharing of a nuetral where the single pole will not.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:01 PM   #12
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[QUOTE=npbsurfr;532587]Yes, they are murray. However GE is the same.

QUOTE]

This is not true.
Just because the breaker fits, does not mean it is listed.
Use only listed and aproved breakers for your panel!
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:10 PM   #13
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[quote=jbfan;532635]
Quote:
Originally Posted by npbsurfr View Post
Yes, they are murray. However GE is the same.

QUOTE]

This is not true.
Just because the breaker fits, does not mean it is listed.
Use only listed and aproved breakers for your panel!
Sorry, I was refering to the two pole wiring method. But my panel does support it. I already had my electrician give me a run down a few months ago.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npbsurfr View Post
Yes, they are murray. However GE is the same.

If I have two circuits running the length of the house, 90ft, and I'd rather run three wires instead of four, I can use a two pole Arc Fault. If I use a one pole arc fault, I would have to run four wires.

The two pole always the sharing of a nuetral where the single pole will not.
In your earlier post you said you had run NM wire in other areas. Will this long run be NM or will you do it in conduit and use single wires? If you do it in NM, you could pull one 12-3 w/g cable and have your MWBC.
I know GE's will fit where Murray breakers are used but if an inspector sees it he will not allow it because the GE's aren't listed for panels other than GE.

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