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Old 02-01-2011, 12:56 PM   #1
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Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question


Well I came back here to look at Stubbies drawings and discovered that they are no longer available, that is sad. I thought they were a real help in understanding things.

In a detached subpanel in a garage the neutral and ground are NOT bonded, is this correct?

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Old 02-01-2011, 01:05 PM   #2
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Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question


Yes, and you should also have a ground rod driven, connected to the ground bar.

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Old 02-01-2011, 01:16 PM   #3
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Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question


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Originally Posted by LyonsElecSupply View Post
Yes, and you should also have a ground rod driven, connected to the ground bar.
Thanks for the quick response. I have 2 8 foot ground rods 6 1/2 feet apart connected to the ground and I also grounded the metal building to the same ground rods. Hope that was okay.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:45 PM   #4
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Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question


You need the ground rods either way. The key is that a ground wire was run with the feeder.

Older feeders to detached structures allowed the neutral to also serve as the ground and the neutral bonded in the sub-panel.
If a ground wire was run then the neutral is not bonded.

The ground rods are NOT what gives you your equipment ground.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:00 PM   #5
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Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question


Cricket

I apologize for the drawings no being available. A couple things happened one was my fault and another was a so called electrician that was posting the 'sticky link' on professional forums that I frequent and making the implication that they either were not mine or they were coming from a DIY site and therefore should be ignored.

I'm working on restoring most of them but I'm not going to post all 230 plus drawings like I did originally....:)

For your interest I'll post 3 drawings that will reflect the most likely situation that you are asking about. One is a 3 wire feeder to a detached building/garage and the other is a 4 wire feeder to a detached building/garage.

A 3 wire feeder was code compliant in the NEC 2005 and prior cycles if certain exceptions are met. In 2008 the NEC removed the exception and 4 wire feeders are now required. Some jurisdictions, both state and local, have required 4 wire feeders for several years. And as Speedy said if you run an equipment ground wire with the conductors of your feeder you will separate neutral and ground in the panel mounted in the detached building.

Also in reference to what Speedy said about the equipment ground and the ground rods. These are two separate systems ... ground rods being part of your GES (grounding electrode system) which is primarily for property protection from things like lightning ... and... then there is the EGC (equipment ground conductor) being part of your 'effective ground fault path' which is for human safety and protection from electrocution by facilitating the opening of your circuit breaker in the event of a ground fault.

Anyway here are the drawings both 3 wire and 4 wire feeders ...
Attached Thumbnails
Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question-subpanel-2.jpg   Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question-subpanel-3.jpg   Missing Stubbies Drawings and bonding question-feeder-sub-panel-1.jpg  
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