misc electrical ?'s for new room

mbaker76 · 10-22-2008, 02:25 PM

I am new here and looking for a little help... I am starting to finish off a coupel rooms in my basement and am considereing doing the electrical myself. But I have a few questions about what I can and cant do?

1) Is it ok to use a ceiling light box, as a junction box as well? I have a circuit I need to run a new feed wire to and it is near a new light location, I woud like to make the splice inside the new light box, and then also install the light, that way everything is hidden and I dont have a blanked out junction box in the ceiling.

2) For my garage outlets, exterior outlets, is it OK to use a GFCI breaker in place of a GFCI outlet on this circuit? Right now the entire garage and 2 exterior outlets are controlled by a GFCI recept in the basement. I would like to remove that recept when I finish the room, and thought it would be easier to just install a GFI breaker rather than move the outlet to the next in line.

3) The service panel will be located in the finished space so at this time I would like to run a line for a future sub panel into an unfinished space. For future use I am thinking of maybe a welder outlet in the garage ( up to 50 amp 240), or maybe some radiant electric heat or simply additional 120 lines. How heavy of wire would I need to use assuming the 50 amp 240 would be the max of any future need?
Is it ok to leave this line loose in the service panel for the time being?
Does the other end need to be in a box or can it be left loose as well?

4) In this new room I plan to add a total of 6 receptacles. Assuming this will be a typical family room, would it be a good idea to split these into 2 circuits, or leave them all on one? Im leaning towards 2 at this time, just because I dont know what the future will bring.

J. V. · 10-22-2008, 03:06 PM

[quote=mbaker76;175327]
1) Is it ok to use a ceiling light box, as a junction box as well? I have a circuit I need to run a new feed wire to and it is near a new light location, I woud like to make the splice inside the new light box, and then also install the light, that way everything is hidden and I dont have a blanked out junction box in the ceiling.[quote=mbaker76;175327]

Yes, but you must not overcrowd the boxes with wires. it's called "box fill"

[quote=mbaker76;175327]
2) For my garage outlets, exterior outlets, is it OK to use a GFCI breaker in place of a GFCI outlet on this circuit? Right now the entire garage and 2 exterior outlets are controlled by a GFCI recept in the basement. I would like to remove that recept when I finish the room, and thought it would be easier to just install a GFI breaker rather than move the outlet to the next in line.[quote=mbaker76;175327]

Yes, You are required to use a GFCI receptacle in the garage. You can use either a GFCI breaker or receptacle. You can use one GFCI breaker to protect as many downstream outlets as you want. You do not need GFCI protection on the lights inside or outide.

[quote=mbaker76;175327]
3) The service panel will be located in the finished space so at this time I would like to run a line for a future sub panel into an unfinished space. For future use I am thinking of maybe a welder outlet in the garage ( up to 50 amp 240), or maybe some radiant electric heat or simply additional 120 lines. How heavy of wire would I need to use assuming the 50 amp 240 would be the max of any future need?
Is it ok to leave this line loose in the service panel for the time being?
Does the other end need to be in a box or can it be left loose as well?[quote=mbaker76;175327]

How large is your main service panel? Just the mention of the welder, and radiat heating should encourage you to install a 100 amp sub panel. Please search this forum for sub panels in attached structures. All the information you need to install a sub panel is repeated many times on this forum.
You can run the cable or conduit now and install the panel later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbaker76

4) In this new room I plan to add a total of 6 receptacles. Assuming this will be a typical family room, would it be a good idea to split these into 2 circuits, or leave them all on one? Im leaning towards 2 at this time, just because I dont know what the future will bring.

It's up to you. You can put as many branch circuit recepts on a circuit as you like. 6. I would use one.

mbaker76 · 10-22-2008, 03:27 PM

thank you for the quick response.....

1) I will have (3) 14-2 lines coming in, so if I count right thats 7 with the grounds, I think the box I looked at said 11 max.

2) Thank you for the info, the GFI breaker will be a lot easier than moving the recept in this case.

3) I didnt mean welder and radiant heat, just thinking of possible uses. In all reality it will never be used... (by me anyway) but you never know. A welder is about the only thing I can realistically see adding at this point. And even at that it likely wouldnt need a 50 amp, but im thinking worst case.

J. V. · 10-23-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbaker76

thank you for the quick response.....

1) I will have (3) 14-2 lines coming in, so if I count right thats 7 with the grounds, I think the box I looked at said 11 max.

2) Thank you for the info, the GFI breaker will be a lot easier than moving the recept in this case.

3) I didnt mean welder and radiant heat, just thinking of possible uses. In all reality it will never be used... (by me anyway) but you never know. A welder is about the only thing I can realistically see adding at this point. And even at that it likely wouldnt need a 50 amp, but im thinking worst case.

Your good on the box fill, the ceiling box.
When installing a sub panel it is my opinion that you should look to the future. I would run at least #3. Four wires. Have fun.

hpp58 · 10-23-2008, 01:45 PM

"In this new room I plan to add a total of 6 receptacles. Assuming this will be a typical family room, would it be a good idea to split these into 2 circuits, or leave them all on one? Im leaning towards 2 at this time, just because I dont know what the future will bring."

You may need more than 6 receptacles. Check out 210.52(A)(1)(2).
If you are planing a media center, you may want more or deadicated circuits, for that area.

mbaker76 · 10-23-2008, 03:03 PM

I just got of the phone with a local contractor who said code prohibits them from making a splice/junction inside a device box like the light box I mentioned above. Could this be a local thing, I know I have read on here that it was ok to do that before.

InPhase277 · 10-23-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbaker76

I just got of the phone with a local contractor who said code prohibits them from making a splice/junction inside a device box like the light box I mentioned above. Could this be a local thing, I know I have read on here that it was ok to do that before.

Where are you? I suppose it could be a local thing, but it is not an NEC article that I can come up with. It may just be a contractor yanking your chain because he assumes you don't know one way or the other. The sure fire way to know is to call your local inspector and ask. And don't just take his word, ask where it is documented and where you can get a copy of the document.

I know some inspectors who love to mandate "rules" when they are really personal preferences and have no legal basis. Get the documents.

mbaker76 · 10-23-2008, 03:42 PM

Im in Kansas City, MO.

I had a couple of contractors say it was OK and even reccomend it over adding another J-box in the finished space, and then this one said they cant do it.

InPhase277 · 10-23-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbaker76

Im in Kansas City, MO.

I had a couple of contractors say it was OK and even reccomend it over adding another J-box in the finished space, and then this one said they cant do it.

Sounds like that last guy either doesn't know better, or is blowing smoke.

jbfan · 10-23-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbaker76

I just got of the phone with a local contractor who said code prohibits them from making a splice/junction inside a device box like the light box I mentioned above. Could this be a local thing, I know I have read on here that it was ok to do that before.

That would make it real hard to install a light fixture!

**Termite** · 10-23-2008, 07:00 PM

In KCMO I can't imagine they'd give you a hard time for using a device box as a junction...But I hear some interesting stories from over there. My suggestion would be to install a good size box and see how it goes. If you use a pancake box or a shallow box of some sort they're more than likely to call you on box fill.

mbaker76 · 10-23-2008, 09:54 PM

I planned on using the deepest box I could find, that or run it to a nearby can light, and hide it in that box. I know I have read about doing that on here several places.

mbaker76 · 10-28-2008, 05:29 PM

I checked with a local inspector and he said as long as the box was not noted as being only for the fixture, then as long as you dont overfill the box there is nothing he can find saying we cant do it. At least here in KC.

220/221 · 10-28-2008, 05:49 PM

1. Yes.

2. Yes, but make sure the circuit is not a 3 wire home run.

3. 6/3 NM. An inspector would want to see it terminated in a j box. It doen't have to be terminated in the panel but I'd terminate the ground and neutral.

4. Typically, 1 circuit. If you are planning AV equipment, add another circuit. If you are plugging in space heaters, add more.