Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-04-2008, 05:57 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Meter and disconnect.


I called an electrician, and he came and looked at my house. He said no problem to upgrade to a 200 amp, and he will get the ball rolling. Well I was painting, and the power company shows up. They said that if the main panel is more than 5 feet from where the feed wire goes in the house it will need a disconnect. OK, and whatever, but I don't see any houses with disconnects. Is this something new. It actually sounds like a good idea.

Dilligaf77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 07:03 AM   #2
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,876
Rewards Points: 2,106
Default

Meter and disconnect.


This requirement has been around forever and varies from place to place.

I'd say 99% of typical homes do meet this requirement and no disconnect is installed.

Some areas actually require a disconnect regardless of distance.

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 07:08 AM   #3
When is fishing season?
 
CowboyAndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 613
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Meter and disconnect.


Is the distance determined by the local codes, or is it something that is set by the NEC?
__________________
I DON'T OWN MY HOUSE...
MY HOUSE OWNS ME!
CowboyAndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 07:14 AM   #4
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Meter and disconnect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyAndy View Post
Is the distance determined by the local codes, or is it something that is set by the NEC?
The NEC, starts at 230.70. but POCO can have their own rules as well.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 09:00 AM   #5
electrician
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 326
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Meter and disconnect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyAndy View Post
Is the distance determined by the local codes, or is it something that is set by the NEC?

This is another section of the NEC that I have a problem with. 230.70 says this:

Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.

It's the word "nearest" that I have a problem with. It's fine if your putting the panel on an outside wall and punch through right behind it. It starts getting funky if it "needs" to go on an interior wall ( "needs" is for aesthetic reasons). I have 3 different inspectors with 3 different acceptable distances, one says 3 feet, one says 5 feet, and the other one pretty much agrees with whatever you decide upon within reason.

By the way, you can get around this requirement by using Section 230.6

230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or other structure under any of the following conditions:
(1) Where installed under not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete beneath a building or other structure
(2) Where installed within a building or other structure in a raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less than 50 mm (2 in.) thick
(3) Where installed in any vault that meets the construction requirements of Article 450, Part III
(4) Where installed in conduit and under not less than 450 mm (18 in.) of earth beneath a building or other structure
Silk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 09:14 AM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Meter and disconnect.


They told me I could wrap the wire around the outside of the house with out a disconnect, but I had to have a disconnect if the panel was more than 5 feet from where the wire went in the house.
Dilligaf77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 09:51 AM   #7
When is fishing season?
 
CowboyAndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 613
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Meter and disconnect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilligaf77 View Post
They told me I could wrap the wire around the outside of the house with out a disconnect, but I had to have a disconnect if the panel was more than 5 feet from where the wire went in the house.
That's the same thing we were told when discussing our service upgrade a few years ago. The origional service ran inside the basement for almost 15 feet. The inspector and POCO recommended to the electrician to run on the outside, then enter and go the 3 feet to the new panel location as opposed to having a disconect at the meter and keeping the panel in the same location.
__________________
I DON'T OWN MY HOUSE...
MY HOUSE OWNS ME!
CowboyAndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 10:04 AM   #8
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,876
Rewards Points: 2,106
Default

Meter and disconnect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk View Post
This is another section of the NEC that I have a problem with. ............It's the word "nearest" that I have a problem with.
This is intentionally ambiguous so local POCOs can determine their own rules.
I am surprised you AHJs are not on the same page with this. IMO it is NOT their job to interpret "nearest". It is the POCO's.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk View Post
By the way, you can get around this requirement by using Section 230.6
230.6 can be a pretty costly and labor intensive way to "get around" something that is usually a non-issue.
If the panel is too far in, use a meter/main. That's a LOT easier than encasing your service entrance in 2" of concrete.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 10:15 AM   #9
electrician
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 326
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Meter and disconnect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
This is intentionally ambiguous so local POCOs can determine their own rules.
I am surprised you AHJs are not on the same page with this. IMO it is NOT their job to interpret "nearest". It is the POCO's.





230.6 can be a pretty costly and labor intensive way to "get around" something that is usually a non-issue.
If the panel is too far in, use a meter/main. That's a LOT easier than encasing your service entrance in 2" of concrete.

Our utilities do not seem to be as intrusive as yours. They don't inspect panels. They never enter a house. All they care about is the proper meter base (needs to be a bypass nowdays), mounted at the proper height ( right in front of their face so they don't have to reach up. They don't even care ( or probably know) about the size SE conductors. All of this is done by the electrical inspectors. They don't even want to show up half the time because they say they're shorthanded and they tell us to cut the lines and pull the meter.

As to section 230.6, there are alot of "slab houses" around me. In floor heat in the slab is getting popular, so it's not a big deal to throw some pipe in the concrete and "hide the panel" where the homeowner wants it.
Silk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 10:23 AM   #10
electrician
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 326
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Meter and disconnect.


A little more info on our utilities. Our electrical inspectors determine if our power gets cut off, not the power company. If there is a violation, the inspector calls the power company and "tells them" to pull the meter. Our linesmen know zero code, except for their's, whatever that is. The linesmen don't want to know the NEC, they scoff at it and call all us electricians "narrowbacks". For me it works better this way because it's only the EI making the judgement calls, not the EI and the utility both.
Silk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 04:40 PM   #11
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Meter and disconnect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
This is intentionally ambiguous so local POCOs can determine their own rules.
I am surprised you AHJs are not on the same page with this. IMO it is NOT their job to interpret "nearest". It is the POCO's.

.
the AHJ enforces the code. The POCO only reacts to the green tag or red tag, at least, around here.

The only thing the POCO decides is where the meter can be placed on the bldg.

nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
complicating-updating new box for client, electrician messed it up-pics included Kraze Electrical 29 11-18-2012 10:14 PM
New Service msagers Electrical 1 02-13-2008 03:08 PM
Main disconnect box before service panel Cellomangler Electrical 4 02-04-2008 08:43 AM
bringing my house up to code sciguy125 Electrical 15 09-24-2007 02:03 PM
Outdoor breaker panel questions lhoney2 Electrical 12 07-19-2007 06:44 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.