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Old 12-27-2010, 11:41 AM   #1
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Meter to ATS to Panel


First try at this, so patience, please?....:-)
I bought 12kw B&S standby generator (BS40302-LHC), also a matched 200A B&S whole house ATS (BS71046-DS). Doing as much of this as I can before I succumb to hiring someone.
My question:
Can my feeds from ATS to panel travel back through same conduit, through which service feeds arrive at ATS? through the meter base? (housing?) and then out through original conduit (where "pre-Gen" feeds travelled)....to panel?
Can I run my two 2/0s and one 1/0 from entry (meter) through conduit to ATS, then back through that same conduit, into meter 'box', and then out the original conduit and over to the panel. 4 2/0s and 2 1/0 THHN should fit w/in the 40% area requirement of 2" conduit, and certainly 2-1/2" conduit. The 2 available access points (holes) on the ATS can/box certainly suggest this is the only way in/out.
Appologies if this is half Greek/half Chinese.....I am reading a lot, but still very 'young' at all this .... at 62 yrs young, only my electrical knowledge is teenage.......:-)
Thanks for anything, folks.

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Old 12-27-2010, 11:48 AM   #2
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Meter to ATS to Panel


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Can my feeds from ATS to panel travel back through same conduit, through which service feeds arrive at ATS? through the meter base? (housing?) and then out through original conduit (where "pre-Gen" feeds travelled)....to panel?



Not sure this will help but maybe.

the service feeders cannot be in the same conduit as any other circuit conductors.

Quote:
Can I run my two 2/0s and one 1/0 from entry (meter) through conduit to ATS, then back through that same conduit, into meter 'box', and then out the original conduit and over to the panel.
no. The service feeders (the wires from your meter to the first disconnect) must not run with any other post disconnect conductors. You also cannot run the main feeders (post disconnect) through the meter base.

Your ATS also becomes your first disconnect for purposes of grounding electrode system bonding as well. You would have a 4 wire connection from that point to your panel.

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Old 12-27-2010, 12:26 PM   #3
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Meter to ATS to Panel


Thanks nap (nice picture, btw),....and fast.....XLNT
.....and, glad I asked questions before I went ahead w/what looked 'logical'..should have known better.....
So, the dumb questions now get worse......sorry.......:-(
I have to go from meter base to ATS, which will occupy one of the knockouts in the ATS box......then out and over to panel..........which must now occupy the other, of two, knockouts. So how do I get the leads from my Generator in there? I can't imagine sawing/drilling new/or additional holes in can/box of a $1000 switch?? (I got it "on sale" for $799) But, I don't believe I've ever seen such a can with just two knockouts......hohum.........do I start drilling?
Anyway, thanks, in advance, if you choose to go with me for another round.
Mrev

Hope this works......newbie.....and all that....

Didn't see your comment on 4-wire from ATS to Panel....so might I assume there will have to be an additional ground rod supplied at/or near ATS?

Last edited by Mrev; 12-27-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:30 PM   #4
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Meter to ATS to Panel


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I can't imagine sawing/drilling new/or additional holes in can/box of a $1000 switch?? (I got it "on sale" for $799)
I do it all the time. There are rules sometimes as to where you can put a hole so don't just indiscriminately poke a hole anywhere without knowing if it is ok or not. In fact, I prefer panels and such without any knockouts. They never seem to be where I want them anyway.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:45 PM   #5
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Meter to ATS to Panel


Thanks again, NAP,
1)I didn't see your comment on 4-wire from ATS to Panel....so might I assume there will have to be an additional ground rod supplied at/or near ATS?

2)Does NEC manual (I have online readable version...much lighter) cover things like where I can blow holes in that can?.........at ~a million pages, it should cover scrambling eggs and sewing button holes, raising children........sheeesh.

I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out.

Last edited by Mrev; 12-27-2010 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:20 PM   #6
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Meter to ATS to Panel


OK, since I cannot have any conductors in same conduit with service feeders.......
I have a Milbank socket base, mounted flush to my garage outside wall, exposed on inside (I removed some sheetrock, etc).......want to mount generator's ATS on garage side at same location...have room to move it up/down/sideways some.......can locate it so I have clear open metal in back of ATS and assume, from Milbank boxes I have seen (open) there is ample space on back of that box.....in a location I can align with hole in ATS........
CAN I cut a hole(s) (knockout not close) in backs of both and "nipple" these two cans together......be ~2-1/2" from back to back.......and make my connections from meter to ATS through that hole?
This would be really convenient, so I am not optimistic......
Any help be hugely appreciated.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:46 PM   #7
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Meter to ATS to Panel


yes, you can.

Just be aware of any limitations indicated in either the ATS tub or the meter can.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:20 PM   #8
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Meter to ATS to Panel


OK, testing your tolerance for stupid questions, I'm sure, but of what "limitations" do you speak? Reference to proximity to lugs, bend radius?......sorry, I wish I were able to NOT ask these nuisance questions, but I am sure the inspector "gods" will be maticulous.....and from my wallet......
.....and, Thanks AGAIN........a lot

Referring to:
yes, you can.

Just be aware of any limitations indicated in either the ATS tub or the meter can
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:56 PM   #9
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Meter to ATS to Panel


no problem. The limitations I was speaking specifically to were where the manufacturer may have placed limitations on where you can make entrances to the tub. I don't see them very often in equipment tubs. Generally there is a sticker that says things like "no entrance above this line" or below or whatever.

just more of a be aware thing than saying there is something actually there.

You did bring up a good point though. Wire bending radius should be considered in your installation. Also make sure the path of the conductors will not interfere with the operation of the switch. I have seen people run conductors where they figured there was a lot or room only to realize it was not so when the switch was flipped.

I am probably freaking you out more than necessary. I just hate to hear about the "OH CRAP" situations where I forgot to mention things to people.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:19 AM   #10
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Meter to ATS to Panel


Just trying this "quick Reply" thing........
Not freaking me out.........freaking cool that you are willing to teach this old dog some tricks........
I will be careful about bends and proximities to adjacent fixtures.....and switch motion, and, and, and......
Thanks..........I hope it doesn't freak you out that you have NOT likely heard the last of me......sorry.......
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:55 AM   #11
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Meter to ATS to Panel


Yes, I realize I am a nuisance.......OK, that said.......
My leads from 12k generator will travel up garage wall, over through garage attic (accessible), down other side to back of ATS. Somewhere I read these (being 'entry' leads), have to travel IN CONDUIT........it's like 50 feet........nothing else up there is inside a tube.....tell me it ain't so.......or is it just that they have to be inside conduit if they are OUTSIDE the building?........like from Gen-set over to the garage wall??? No clue how one would get conduit into the walls??......flexible stuff? The 6/3 I am using is already sheathed.......is that 'conduit'?
Thanks.....AGAIN..........for your help, nap......anyone........
This has been a good thing........for me......

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