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Old 07-18-2014, 08:59 PM   #31
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Well, it passed with flying colors. I used 240.6 for my 40 amp 2 pole in main panel and the 30 amp slo blo fuses were my circuit protection for the A/C.

Another Green Tag !!!

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Old 07-18-2014, 09:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletis
Well, it passed with flying colors. I used 240.6 for my 40 amp 2 pole in main panel and the 30 amp slo blo fuses were my circuit protection for the A/C. Another Green Tag !!!
I wouldn't have passed it with the 40. But that's just me.
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cletis View Post
Well, it passed with flying colors. I used 240.6 for my 40 amp 2 pole in main panel and the 30 amp slo blo fuses were my circuit protection for the A/C.

Another Green Tag !!!
So, you passed something that isn't compliant. Whoopee. Hope it makes you feel special.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:43 PM   #34
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Ok, lets mix it up a bit here; suppose that in the OPs example, the length of the #10s between the 40 amp breaker and the fused disconnect was less that 25', and it was in conduit.

It seems to me that the tap rules would apply here and it'd be compliant.

But Cletis didn't state the conductor length or the type of installation, so we don't know if that's the reason it passed.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:48 PM   #35
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It was actually only around 5 ft from panel. Right out of basement to disconnect
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by micromind
Ok, lets mix it up a bit here; suppose that in the OPs example, the length of the #10s between the 40 amp breaker and the fused disconnect was less that 25', and it was in conduit. It seems to me that the tap rules would apply here and it'd be compliant. But Cletis didn't state the conductor length or the type of installation, so we don't know if that's the reason it passed.
It is not a tap when it originates from a breaker. Don't matter how you look at it. It is a non compliant installation.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:13 PM   #37
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It is not a tap when it originates from a breaker.
I may be missing something here, but I haven't seen anything in the code that specifies the means of attachment of the tap to its source. I'd really appreciate a code reference.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:16 PM   #38
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They are not branch circuit conductors to the fused disco. They are feeders.
Yes that was my error, they are indeed feeder conductors.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:24 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletis View Post
Well, it passed with flying colors. I used 240.6 for my 40 amp 2 pole in main panel and the 30 amp slo blo fuses were my circuit protection for the A/C.

Another Green Tag !!!
240.6 doesn't work. Mind explaining how you came to that conclusion?
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:46 PM   #40
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I suppose the simply way of answering the tap rules is if an ocpd is required at the point of the tap then the conductors do not meet the requirements of the tap rules. Once the ocpd is installed it is no longer a tap.

(B) Feeder Taps.
Conductors shall be permitted to be tapped,

without overcurrent protection at the tap, to a feeder as specified
in 240.21(B)(1) through (B)(5). The provisions of
240.4(B) shall not be permitted for tap conductors.
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:30 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletis
Well, it passed with flying colors. I used 240.6 for my 40 amp 2 pole in main panel and the 30 amp slo blo fuses were my circuit protection for the A/C. Another Green Tag !!!
240.6 will get you to a 35a breaker. Nice try though. Now you have a 35a breaker protecting a 30a disco.
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Last edited by electures; 07-19-2014 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:31 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie
I suppose the simply way of answering the tap rules is if an ocpd is required at the point of the tap then the conductors do not meet the requirements of the tap rules. Once the ocpd is installed it is no longer a tap. (B) Feeder Taps. Conductors shall be permitted to be tapped, without overcurrent protection at the tap, to a feeder as specified in 240.21(B)(1) through (B)(5). The provisions of 240.4(B) shall not be permitted for tap conductors.
Bingo.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:43 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere
Only for the condenser fan motor and compressor. Their internal over loads only open between their common winding and their run and start windings. A partial short to ground can still occur before the internal over load. Yes, I know the NEC feels its enough protection for the wire.


In a hermetically sealed motor application, the breaker we supply only provides ground fault and short circuit protection, the motor itself contains overloads that protect the conductors, the manufacture supplies the calculations on the nameplate, why do you think you can run #12 awg supplied by a 30 amp circuit breaker?
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:04 AM   #44
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http://youtu.be/uJRSrB4E7dY
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:07 AM   #45
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It was actually only around 5 ft from panel. Right out of basement to disconnect
Ok Cletis time to shoot straight your continuing to dig a deeper and deeper hole

Though I find nothing wrong with posing hypothetical installations to improve ones understanding of code and wiring configurations but it is a little disingenuous to not be up front about it.

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