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Old 05-31-2008, 07:56 PM   #1
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OK guys, I'm building a summer place in NE PA. I've been hooked up with a ton of # 12 stranded. I have 5oo and 1000 ft rolls of red, black, blue ,white, and green. I was thinking of running 3/4 conduit to cut down the cost, but now I'm thinking of picking up 3/8 greenfield and snaking the # 12 in it. ANy thoughts? Is this up to code? Do I have to run a green ground to have it meet code?

Thanks in advance

Jim

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Old 05-31-2008, 08:16 PM   #2
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Is this up to code?
No. 1/2 inch is the smallest allowable FMC except for a few specified uses for 3/8 inch.
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Do I have to run a green ground to have it meet code?
a moot point since the 3/8 is illegal

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Old 05-31-2008, 08:27 PM   #3
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so if I inserted 1/2 inch for 3/8 inch in the above post?
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:49 PM   #4
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so if I inserted 1/2 inch for 3/8 inch in the above post?

if the section of fmc is over 6 feet, yes, you must intall an EGC.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:32 PM   #5
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Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should. The money you will have to spend on 1/2" flex, steel boxes and labor will offset any savings.


Sell the thhn and use the proceeds to by romex.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:51 AM   #6
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He hasn't any wire lately?
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:55 AM   #7
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Use EMT. You do not need 3/4" for everything. The majority of the conduit in a dwelling will be 1/2". Couplings and connectors are relatively inexpensive in bulk. Shop the best price for fittings, conduit and boxes. Don't forget to check with electrical supply houses. You might be very happy with there prices vs the HD or Lowes.

Your situation reminds me of a terrible incident that happened to me one day.
I was out on the road when a guy in a pick up truck stopped by our office. His truck was piled high with THHN (all sizes), and many rolls of 1000' Belden cable (assorted). The only people that looked at it were the president and the electronics tech. The man wanted $10.00 dollars per roll. 500' and 1000'. Guess what? The idiot electronics tech bought one roll of the Belden cable and sent the guy on his way. They were so stupid. I could not believe what they had passed up. I garranty, if I would have showed him a $100.00 bill, I could have had the whole load. That truck probably had over $10.000 worth of cable on it. I still cringe when I think about it.
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:04 PM   #8
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I could not believe what they had passed up. I garranty, if I would have showed him a $100.00 bill, I could have had the whole load. That truck probably had over $10.000 worth of cable on it. I still cringe when I think about it.
yep, you'll see stolen wire sold this way.

Now it is better just to scrap it but even that presents its own share of obstacles.
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Old 06-01-2008, 02:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Use EMT. You do not need 3/4" for everything. The majority of the conduit in a dwelling will be 1/2". Couplings and connectors are relatively inexpensive in bulk. Shop the best price for fittings, conduit and boxes. Don't forget to check with electrical supply houses. You might be very happy with there prices vs the HD or Lowes.

Your situation reminds me of a terrible incident that happened to me one day.
I was out on the road when a guy in a pick up truck stopped by our office. His truck was piled high with THHN (all sizes), and many rolls of 1000' Belden cable (assorted). The only people that looked at it were the president and the electronics tech. The man wanted $10.00 dollars per roll. 500' and 1000'. Guess what? The idiot electronics tech bought one roll of the Belden cable and sent the guy on his way. They were so stupid. I could not believe what they had passed up. I garranty, if I would have showed him a $100.00 bill, I could have had the whole load. That truck probably had over $10.000 worth of cable on it. I still cringe when I think about it.
It's clear you'd rather be part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Nobody sells wire that cheap unless it's stolen, period. It would of taken only a few minutes to stall him pretending to buy wire while someone else called the cops! But you would rather purchase cheap wire from a thief! You're pathetic...
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:31 PM   #10
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OK, I appreciate your input. I understand that guys from this board are all over the country. I'm from NYC, and what happens here all the time is that on BIG jobs in Manhatten, all the materials left over are just abandoned. Apparently, it's not cost effective to pay union scale to clean up a job and load and unload the materials on the next job. A buddy of mine goes around and cleans up afterwards. So basically, I have 1900 boxes, gem boxes, a couple rolls of bx, outlets, switches,bx connectors, Emt connectors. Basically I have a ton of stuff and I'm hoping to keep the cost down on the project. So, would I be better off with 1/2 inch EMT than with the greenfield?
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Old 06-02-2008, 12:27 AM   #11
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When I built my house 12 years ago, I was in sort of the same boat. I do mostly comm'l/industrial, and the company I work for said I could have any material they had in the shop for free. All conduit, fittings, THHN wire, etc. No NM at all.

I've bent pipe for years, so installing conduit was no problem at all. I set the panel in the wall between the garage and house, ran a 1" in the trusses above the garage to feed the shop tools + the A/C units. I ran a 3/4" in the crawlspace to the kitchen island, to feed all the kitchen stuff. I ran another 3/4" in the crawlspace to the dryer receptacle, to feed the laundry room, and some other branch circuits nearby. I ran two-1/2", one on the left side of the panel, the other on the right. these ran all the way down the outside walls, until they met at the opposite end of the building.

In branching out from these homeruns, where it was easy to pipe, I ran conduit and metal boxes. The more difficult areas were ran with NM. (Which I had to buy).

You'll need to plan your conduit runs carefully, especially 1/2". My house has a 120/208 3 phase service, and just about everything is multi-wire branch circuits, so I have fewer neutrals that if it were single phase. Arc-faults were unheard of back then, and each circuit here needs its own neutral. Neutrals can fill up a pipe quickly, and unless they're associated with multi-wire circuits, they must be counted as current carrying conductors for de-rating purposes. You can basically get 9 current carrying wires in a conduit of any size before you need to up-size the wire due to temperature limitations. The neutral of a multi-wire circuit doesn't count, nor does the ground.

There are areas of the country where NM is not allowed at all, so conduit in a house is sometimes really not all that unusual.

Rob
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim64conv View Post
OK, I appreciate your input. I understand that guys from this board are all over the country. I'm from NYC, and what happens here all the time is that on BIG jobs in Manhatten, all the materials left over are just abandoned. Apparently, it's not cost effective to pay union scale to clean up a job and load and unload the materials on the next job. A buddy of mine goes around and cleans up afterwards. So basically, I have 1900 boxes, gem boxes, a couple rolls of bx, outlets, switches,bx connectors, Emt connectors. Basically I have a ton of stuff and I'm hoping to keep the cost down on the project. So, would I be better off with 1/2 inch EMT than with the greenfield?
Wrong-o. "A buddy of yours" does NOT shovel up tons of THHN with the electrical contractor's or foreman's blessing. What happens is the cleaned up wire and cable is SOLD to the likes of City Scrap Metal by the electricians, who come in a truck with a scale on it and cash on hand. NOBODY is giving away 500 & 2500' reels of #12 THHN, not even in NYC. (And, btw, this is apprentice's work, and there's no shortage of them, and it's quite cost effective.)
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:09 AM   #13
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It's clear you'd rather be part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Nobody sells wire that cheap unless it's stolen, period. It would of taken only a few minutes to stall him pretending to buy wire while someone else called the cops! But you would rather purchase cheap wire from a thief! You're pathetic...
Of course it was stolen. Even a pathetic person like me knows that.
There is no need to get personal on this forum.
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:32 PM   #14
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OK Wrong-O, maybe nowadays with copper mongo going for $3+ a pound, it's a differant story, but 6 or 7 years ago when my buddy was an apprentice and there was leftover materials they were abandoned. It was his job to clean up, and when he asked what to do with it he was told by the foreman "I don't give a sh*t what you do with it". There were jobs he came home with zilch, and there were jobs he came home with a trunk full of sh*t. I happened to have the foresight to let him know I had plenty of room for storage. Now I'm just trying to figure out the best way to put this stuff to good use.
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:49 PM   #15
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There is no need to get personal on this forum
Maybe I was just following your lead?

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The idiot electronics tech bought one roll of the Belden cable and sent the guy on his way. They were so stupid.

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