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Old 01-10-2012, 11:13 AM   #16
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


This:
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Originally Posted by Julius793 View Post
Yes and each breaker must be on a separate phase.
and this:
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Originally Posted by langless28 View Post
yes i thought that mwbc needed to have each leg (breaker) of the circuit on separate poles in order for the load on the neutral to be the "difference" in loads; otherwise its "cumulative" on the neutral and could possible cause the neutral wire to fail before either circuit break tripped.

http://www.homeinspector.org/resourc...h-Circuits.pdf

Mean the same thing. They do have to be on seperate "poles", AKA Phases of the panel, which is what Julius meant. If the breakers are next to each other, they are on seperate phases by "default" so to speak.

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Old 01-10-2012, 11:18 AM   #17
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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Originally Posted by jproffer View Post
This:


and this:



Mean the same thing. They do have to be on seperate "poles", AKA Phases of the panel, which is what Julius meant. If the breakers are next to each other, they are on seperate phases by "default" so to speak.
yes i briefly forgot that breakers next to each other are on separate poles.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:37 AM   #18
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center




It happens.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:45 AM   #19
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


I dont like the neutrals and grounds mixed. although technically ok, i think it looks crappy and I prefer to have the neutral terminate on the neutral bus at the same level (approx) as the hot, same with ground. Makes it easier to locate circuits in a full panel down the road.

further...if you ever add a generator or some other service disconnect before that panel then you have a world of pain getting them all seperated again to unbond the two busses.

follow?

again...not something you necessarily need to address right now, just be aware of.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:53 PM   #20
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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The knockout where the doorbell wiring goes through doesn't appear to have a clamp.
I took a close up of this area and you're right. there is no cable clamp. Look at photos below on how transformer is secured. I dont know how a cable clamp would be affixed??
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #21
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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I took a close up of this area and you're right. there is no cable clamp. Look at photos below on how transformer is secured. I dont know how a cable clamp would be affixed??
That XFRMER is properly mounted.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:50 PM   #22
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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That XFRMER is properly mounted.
I agree now that I've seen the close-ups. I didn't realize the transformer was mounted directly on the box.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:55 PM   #23
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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That XFRMER is properly mounted.
OK. I didnt think there was a way to put a cable clamp on that knockout and still be able to secure the transformer.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:33 PM   #24
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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Originally Posted by jcrack_corn View Post
I dont like the neutrals and grounds mixed. although technically ok, i think it looks crappy and I prefer to have the neutral terminate on the neutral bus at the same level (approx) as the hot, same with ground. Makes it easier to locate circuits in a full panel down the road.

further...if you ever add a generator or some other service disconnect before that panel then you have a world of pain getting them all seperated again to unbond the two busses.

follow?

again...not something you necessarily need to address right now, just be aware of.
On a main panel I normally stack the neutral and ground directly on top of each other for each circuit in seperate holes of course to make it easier to find them,no need to seperate them unless its a sub panel
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:06 AM   #25
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I'm glad you guys reminded me of the multi-wire branch circuits. Like its been said you'd think just because you have the one breaker off you could still get bit on the neutral.

So I probably should get some handle ties among the MWBC breakers.

Question though: would the handle ties prevent one of the breakers from tripping if it needed to if the one it was tied to did not trip? Odds of both tripping at same time are probably high.

I did the easiest item on the list: wifes mascara lol
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:47 AM   #26
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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Originally Posted by Minus08 View Post
I'm glad you guys reminded me of the multi-wire branch circuits. Like its been said you'd think just because you have the one breaker off you could still get bit on the neutral.

So I probably should get some handle ties among the MWBC breakers.

Question though: would the handle ties prevent one of the breakers from tripping if it needed to if the one it was tied to did not trip? Odds of both tripping at same time are probably high.

I did the easiest item on the list: wifes mascara lol
No problem with tripping both. Three phase breakers (3) do it all the time.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:08 AM   #27
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
Otherwise that look good however I know Seaimens are good panel but only one quirk it don't show up often but it do is netural crossover bussbar on the bottom of the panel if your basement is pretty dry majorty of the time it is not a issue but with damp basement then yeah I have couple of them went bonkers.

Merci,
Marc
I was about to ask about that as well...but then it shows up in one of the pictures.

Interesting to see the difference of opinions on mixing neutrals with grounds vs seperating them to opposite sides of the buss bars. Each has advantages.....I personally prefer in a main panel to land them together. It allows me to keep the wire for the respective romex together.....I just think it looks cleaner than all the long individual wires. Don't need as many wire ties.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #28
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


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I was about to ask about that as well...but then it shows up in one of the pictures.

Interesting to see the difference of opinions on mixing neutrals with grounds vs seperating them to opposite sides of the buss bars. Each has advantages

You guys are referring to the metal tie that connects both neutral/ground bars ? It's my understanding that if this was a subpanel, that metal tie would be taken off?
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:09 PM   #29
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Yes that would be removed on a sub panel
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:25 PM   #30
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Looking for "Wrongs" in my Siemens load center


Quote:
Question though: would the handle ties prevent one of the breakers from tripping if it needed to if the one it was tied to did not trip? Odds of both tripping at same time are probably high.
I wouldn't worry about it, but if you are you could always get a "real" 2 pole breaker for each of those circuits.

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