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Old 08-05-2012, 06:44 PM   #1
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I know it's best to group questions alike into there own threads, but I did not want to have to many active threads at one time so I hope you'll don't mind.
I'm rewiring a 1950's ranch so I'm stuck with most of the new codes and Iím not all the way up to speed with them yet.


The first circuit to the bath room will have 2 GFCI outlets and the light.
The second bathroom circuit with be for a fan, light, and heat combo.
Will the bathroom circuits need AFCI breakers?

The kitchen will have 4 GFCI counter outlets each with it's own circuit.
The fridge, dishwasher, and microwave / hod will have there own circuits.
There will be another circuit with a wall outlet, and a light / fan combo.
Will I need 8 AFCI breakers for the kitchen or just 1 for the outlet and lights?
The dishwasher is next to the sink, but no GFCI?

I was planning on the hall light and smoke detectors to be on 1 circuit.
Main level placement; 1 out side the 2 bed rooms in the hall and one in the living room near the kitchen.
The basement has a utility room and I was planning 2.
I'm going to use 12/3 with them for the interconnect.
Am I missing anything and dose it sound right?

I'm thinking about putting a 100 amp sub panel in the utility room to save on the amount of home runs going to the main panel and I think would cut down on wire cost. The kitchen is right above the utility room so I was thinking running those to the sub pannel.
I would like to do a load calculation, but not sure how to do them and Iím just guessing at the wattage.
hot water heater (tank) 4,500
range 3,000
2 ton HVAC compressor 2,500
air handler with back up electric heat 10,000 (wild guess)
clothes dryer 5,000
clothes washer 1,000
dishwasher 1,200
fridge 700
microwave / hood 1,200
4 counter outlets 3,000 watts
With out derating anything and not knowing how to do this I came out to 135 amps per phase.
How do I properly do the load calculation?

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Old 08-05-2012, 07:02 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 1950home View Post
I know it's best to group questions alike into there own threads, but I did not want to have to many active threads at one time so I hope you'll don't mind.
I'm rewiring a 1950's ranch so I'm stuck with most of the new codes and Iím not all the way up to speed with them yet.


The first circuit to the bath room will have 2 GFCI outlets and the light.
The second bathroom circuit with be for a fan, light, and heat combo.
Will the bathroom circuits need AFCI breakers? No

The kitchen will have 4 GFCI counter outlets each with it's own circuit.
The fridge, dishwasher, and microwave / hod will have there own circuits.
There will be another circuit with a wall outlet, and a light / fan combo.
Will I need 8 AFCI breakers for the kitchen or just 1 for the outlet and lights? You will need one AFCI for the wall outlet and light/fan
The dishwasher is next to the sink, but no GFCI? If it is a built in dishwasher, no

I was planning on the hall light and smoke detectors to be on 1 circuit.
Main level placement; 1 out side the 2 bed rooms in the hall and one in the living room near the kitchen.
The basement has a utility room and I was planning 2.
I'm going to use 12/3 with them for the interconnect.
Am I missing anything and dose it sound right?
You can use 14-3 and put it on a 15A breaker. I am pretty sure they have to be on an AFCI breaker. You need a smoke/CO detector on each floor. You need a smoke inside each bedroom and outside the group of bedrooms (I think its 6' from the doors). The basement only needs one if there are no bedrooms.

I'm thinking about putting a 100 amp sub panel in the utility room to save on the amount of home runs going to the main panel and I think would cut down on wire cost. The kitchen is right above the utility room so I was thinking running those to the sub pannel.
I would like to do a load calculation, but not sure how to do them and Iím just guessing at the wattage.
hot water heater (tank) 4,500
range 3,000
2 ton HVAC compressor 2,500
air handler with back up electric heat 10,000 (wild guess)
clothes dryer 5,000
clothes washer 1,000
dishwasher 1,200
fridge 700
microwave / hood 1,200
4 counter outlets 3,000 watts
With out derating anything and not knowing how to do this I came out to 135 amps per phase.
How do I properly do the load calculation?
That is a large subpanel, what is your current electrical service rated at?
Answers in red

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Old 08-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #3
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Just want to point out, in the first question you mentioned two GFI outlets om one circuit.
You cannot use two GFI recepticles, but feed the 2nd outlet off the first GFI for protection.

I hope this is what you meant
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
You cannot use two GFI recepticles,
Why not?
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:35 PM   #5
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Maybe i didnt explain right. Im saying two GFI in series on the same circuit will compete with each other.
Far as i know you cannot run GFI back to back. Please correct me if im wrong.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:39 PM   #6
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You can, but if you load one GFI off another GFI it can become confusing on which recept is causing the problem should one arise. You can, however, pig tail the hots at first GFI and run straight power to the second GFI.

I would prefer to do all my GFI's this way, but customer/bosses don't like to pay the extra $$ for the device.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:44 PM   #7
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Nice, in your setup both gfi's will trip individually.
I was just saying its a common mistake to come off the accesory screws to feed another gfi
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:02 PM   #8
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Nice, in your setup both gfi's will trip individually.
I was just saying its a common mistake to come off the accesory screws to feed another gfi
That is a misconception, as they will work, but will be confusing to find which gfci tripped
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:15 PM   #9
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Thank you k_buz
You saved me a lot of time searching and headaches down the road.

Great to know with the smoke alarms, thank you.

In 1997 the service was up dated to 200 amp Cutler Hammer panel. The rest of the service was also done. My house is about 925 square feet with unfinished basement.

When you type it all out it sound huge. My parents house was also all electrical, had a well, sump pump, and was fine with a 100 amp service until he got to many toys.

Depending on how you wire 2 GFCI outlets on the same circuit your in for some fun when one trips.

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