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Old 05-22-2010, 12:34 PM   #1
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


Hey everyone,

I'm looking to run a total of three 250V receptacles (6-15R) throughout our house - two in one room and one in another, unfortunately both rooms are located on the opposite sides of the house... My problem is that I've only got limited breaker spaces left in my panel and, being that the 2-pole breakers take up 2 spaces a piece I'm looking for a good, code-compliant, way to do this.

One method I thought of was to bring both sets of wire near to the panel and then put them both inside a junction box and then run that into the panel (that way I only need one 2-pole breaker to run all three outlets).

Thoughts???

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Old 05-22-2010, 01:26 PM   #2
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


Where are you located ?
What is the main panel - 200a... 100a ?
What will be used in the outlets ? Rating - 15a all of them ?
Will they all be used at the same time ?

If 200a panel I'd install a 100a sub
If 100a panel I'd install a 100a sub & feed it with 60a

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Old 05-22-2010, 02:39 PM   #3
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


The panel is a Square D 100AMP ("QOS" Model I believe)

I've got 6 spare spaces left in the panel before I do this work.

None of the uses call for "demanding consumption" (all appliances using these breakers are simple, higher voltage, domestic appliances (a steam iron, high-wattage kettle etc)

One area I've been looking into though is the possibility of purchasing two "Tandem" breakers -- I think these are available on my model of panel. This would mean I could give each run a separate breaker and save space. Having looked on line for some breakers, the pictures don't really show if they are 2 pole (so if the 'switches' have a bridge to turn both poles on/off at the same time)...

Anyway, that's a strong possibility -- and, after that, it'll still leave me 4 clear spaces to finish the basement... (Don't need much more room for expansion -- it's a new build house with no room to grow anywhere else anyway) :P

Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas?
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:43 PM   #4
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


Most tandem breakers only connect to one hot buss. This will not provide 240 volts to your receps.
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Old 05-22-2010, 03:07 PM   #5
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


Yep -- You're right... I've just been reading up on all of it... Damn!

So, next thought -- in order to save the most space -- I'd need to really buy a few tandems to replace some of the existing singles -- (this will free up some space in the panel) and then just get a few regular 2 pole breakers. This is probably the best way to do things...

So, in order to add in 2 X 2-pole breakers, I need 4 spaces. So, ideally, I'd need maybe 4 tandems (which will free up 4 spaces overall) and then put in 2 new 2-pole breakers...

Will that work do you think?
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Old 05-22-2010, 04:58 PM   #6
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


Square-D makes a quad breaker for the Homeline series panels but I am not sure if they make it for QO panels
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:08 PM   #7
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Alright, so despite everything I've been saying -- I'm now more confused than ever -- Definite expert help needed here...

Here's a link to the Square D website regarding one of their Tandem Breakers -- http://ecatalog.squared.com/fulldeta...number=QOT1515

Just incase, the model is "QOT1515" -- have a look...

If you read the specs, it would indicate that it has a voltage rating of 120/240VAC... Which, would seem to me, to be a kind-of miniature 2-pole breaker (if used for the purpose I'm looking for)... I may be reading this wrong, and I have e-mailed Square D for further help -- but are there any experts out there that are familiar with Square D and their "Q" series of products???

All help and guidance appreciated
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:17 PM   #8
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


Possible there is some sort of panel made where that can straddle 2 poles ? Never heard of one
But normally you will only get 120v with that breaker & will not get 240v
Since there is 120v going thru each tandem breaker it may need to be rated for a total of 240v
But you can't run 240v equipment from that breaker on one pole
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzlin View Post
Alright, so despite everything I've been saying -- I'm now more confused than ever -- Definite expert help needed here...

Here's a link to the Square D website regarding one of their Tandem Breakers -- http://ecatalog.squared.com/fulldeta...number=QOT1515

Just incase, the model is "QOT1515" -- have a look...

If you read the specs, it would indicate that it has a voltage rating of 120/240VAC... Which, would seem to me, to be a kind-of miniature 2-pole breaker (if used for the purpose I'm looking for)... I may be reading this wrong, and I have e-mailed Square D for further help -- but are there any experts out there that are familiar with Square D and their "Q" series of products???

All help and guidance appreciated
I believe the specs state 1 pole.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:31 PM   #10
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


So it makes you wonder why Square D would post 240 in the ratings -- weird?
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:35 PM   #11
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Unfortunately, I believe these are only made for Homelines. I don't believe there is a QO equivalent but I'll check.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:08 PM   #12
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Hey everyone -- we're moving into a new house soon and, so far, I've found out that it's got a Square D "QO132M100" panel inside. It's only got 6 spare spaces left.

What I'm looking to do is expand some of my electrical 'means' to have a couple of 240v (2-pole) lines run - weird, I know, but anyway....

I don't really want to take up any of the extra spaces if I can (want to save them for finishing the basement one day) but cannot find any information anywhere on the following:

(1) On this particular model, am I able to put in two-pole breakers in ANY space or only particular ones??? (If only particular, which ones?) Seems to be that, as it is now, they've put all of the two-pole breakers on the right-side (none on the left)... Significant I wonder?

(2) I'm going to need a few tandem breakers to free up some space. Is there any way to find out if this model has a limitation on the # of tandems that can be used...

If there's any pro's out there -- I took some pictures and would appreciate some guidance if you get a few moments...

Thanks so much everyone - your help is really appreciated
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:10 PM   #13
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


2 pole breakers can be installed anywhere in this panel where there are 2 adjacent spaces available.

Tandem-type breakers are not listed for use in this panel.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:28 PM   #14
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No tandems.... Hmmm.... All right -- now I need suggestions for plan B? I've got 5 two-pole circuits to put in... Am I now having to think Sub-panel?

Ideas/suggestions?
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:05 AM   #15
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Limited Breaker Spaces -- Professional Gudiance Sought...


Hey everyone,

So I finally figured out that my Square D QO132M100 load centre I have isn't kind enough to accept tandem breakers (for me to save/add in more space) -- so I'm now conceding to the concept of installing a sub-panel. I've got 100Amp service and, in the sub-panel, I'm looking to have about 6 2-pole (240v) 15Amp circuits.

So, how big of a Breaker should I use in the main panel, to feed the sub? 60Amp?

Anyone have any first hand experience on a sub-panel installation?

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