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Old 02-14-2008, 06:41 AM   #46
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lighting on kitchen gfci allowed?


What I think is the real issue here is that if there is a recept serving the countertop, is it AUTOMATICLY a SABC? The way I read it is yes.

I agree that this area of the code is very poorly worded and that leaves it open to interpritation. My inspector may allow a non gfi switched outlet on the countertop, while stubbie's won't. It can go either way... it does not expressly FORBID this to happen, but doesn't say in plain english that ALL recepts serving the countertop become SABC (FWIW, to me it is IMPLIED that they all must be 20A, GFI

Switched outlet? YES.
Non GFI 15AMP cct present? NO.

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Old 02-14-2008, 04:26 PM   #47
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lighting on kitchen gfci allowed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
Well you would certainly think that you could have a switched receptacle for whatever in the kitchen for other than sabc requirements..... My problem is I don't see how to put one over the counter and it not be considered serving the counter top. I've decided that none of us are wrong just some of us are mistaken.

Stubbie

The required receptacles for a kitchen counter are 210.52(B) (3) & (C), The outlets i'm installing are NOT required and do NOT serve the countertop so WHY would I use 210.52(B) (3) & (C) to install them????

This was the easiest way I can think of to explain it...
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Old 02-14-2008, 05:44 PM   #48
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lighting on kitchen gfci allowed?


Hi Chris

I really do see your point and I am inclined to agree. You and I both know this is acceptable....at least I have never been nailed for it. My difficulty is with the way the code is written it is not IMO opinion clear and is in fact quite poorly written to the point that no one in the field can reach agreement on it. Ever had a discussion with your inspector on this? Ask him what he thinks of adding a 15 amp general purpose branch circuit for switched receptacles along side the 2 sabc required receptacles on a counter top (single or duplex) for the purpose of plugging a wall mounted lights. I'll bet you will get a pause and different answers from different inspectors. In the real residential wiremans world it likely will be accepted but is not the greatest design considering the intent of 20 amp circuits on the countertop. And I don't mean in terms of available power. Second who the heck would want cord and plugs to wall mount fixtures on the countertop receptacles? But i suppose that is not the issue. The question if I can remember was ...can you have receptacles serving lights on the counter top in the same areas defined for the 2 or more sabc's switched or otherwise? My answer is a reserved yes after reviewing other opinions... yours included. But one that still has a bit of fog hung over it.

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Old 02-14-2008, 05:54 PM   #49
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lighting on kitchen gfci allowed?


If I might add this one last comment...

I think the question would have been better asked if it had said....

If you bring in a 3rd sabc to the countertop to a single kitchen can I serve lights from those receptacles?

The only way I see to differentiate between a general purpose branch circuit and an sabc on the counter top after the required 2 sabc's is by branch circuit rating or if your bringing in a circuit that also serves living room receptacles or the like. Not forgetting the gfci requirements.

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Last edited by Stubbie; 02-14-2008 at 06:42 PM.
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