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Legal to have subpanel in garage?

10K views 36 replies 6 participants last post by  gante 
#1 ·
Hi,

I am just wondering if it is legal to have a subpanel in the garage. I am buying a house with the main 100 amp panel and a subpanel inside the garage (unknown amps). During the inspection it was suggested that I should get rid of the subpanel in the garage and add the line directly to the main house panel of 100 amps. I have seen that many people do have a subpanel in there garage by reading posts here. I live in Whittier CA in case anyone is familiar with the codes here. I will be doing some electrical work on the house since some of the wires for outside lighting is not safe and also the line from the house to the garage is not to code either. I wonder if it would be recomended to upgrade the main 100 amps panel to a 200 amp (The inspector said this would not be nessesary)? and does the subpanel in the garage offer any advantages over having the line connected to the main house panel?.

Thank you
 
#5 ·
Hi,

and also the line from the house to the garage is not to code either. I wonder if it would be recomended to upgrade the main 100 amps panel to a 200 amp (The inspector said this would not be nessesary)? and does the subpanel in the garage offer any advantages over having the line connected to the main house panel?.
Not sure I follow? What would your option be other than a sub panel, just running a single circuit out to the garage. Nothing wrong with a properly setup sub panel.

Your not saying there is a seperate meter on the garage are you?

Can you post some photos?

Jamie
 
#6 ·
I am buying a house with the main 100 amp panel and a subpanel inside the garage (unknown amps)
So the main panel & the sub-panel are in the garage?
That's not a problem

What line from the house to the garage?
Is this a detached garage?
Is there panel in the house?

2 meters? 1 meter?

You need a load calc to figure out if you need a service upgrade
I'm at about 143a out of 200a once my addition is completed
That includes a hot tub, electric HW, radiant floor heat, and a big SW tank setup
 
#7 · (Edited)
I was going to say leave the subpanel there and keep using it, but if the wiring is totally not up to code then you have to string new wire anyway.

For an attached garage have the choice of stringing one fat set of wires, say a 6/3 Romex, and keeping/replacing the subpanel, or stringing several skinny cables (12/2, etc. or for combination 120/240 volt loads, 12/3, 10/3, etc.) and not having a subpanel. Regular lights and receptacles may not be on a circuit breakered at more than 20 amps.

For a detached garage, only one feed, fat or skinny, 2 or 3 conductor plus ground, can be strung. Without a subpanel this limits you to the equivalent of two 20 amp. 120 volt branch circuits (12/3 cable).

A detached garage will need a ground rod and should* have a ground wire going back to the (main) house to go with the subpanel. Are these the only things you are missing to come up to code?

*Must have if there are other metallic paths such as cable TV wires or plumbing going from the garage to the house.
 
#8 ·
I was going to say leave the subpanel there and keep using it, but if the wiring is totally not up to code then you have to string new wire anyway.

For an attached garage have the choice of stringing one fat set of wires, say a 6/3 Romex, and keeping/replacing the subpanel, or stringing several skinny cables (12/2, etc. or for combination 120/240 volt loads, 12/3, 10/3, etc.) and not having a subpanel. Regular lights and receptacles may not be on a circuit breakered at more than 20 amps.

For a detached garage, only one feed, fat or skinny, 2 or 3 conductor plus ground, can be strung. Without a subpanel this limits you to the equivalent of two 20 amp. 120 volt branch circuits (12/3 cable).

A detached garage will need a ground rod and should* have a ground wire going back to the (main) house to go with the subpanel. Are these the
only things you are missing to come up to code?

*Must have if there are other metallic paths such as cable TV wires or plumbing going from the garage to the house.
Must always have under 08 I believe.
Jamie
 
#9 ·
I guess I misunderstood the inspector then. I have a subpanel in the garange with old fuses (with not meter obviously) and the main panel on the outside wall of the house (100 Amp). The inspector suggested to get rid of the subpanel in the garage and just ran a line from the main panel to the garage. I will be doing electrical work to get this done properly since the garage wiring is not up to code. The only thing I was trying to decide is wheter to have a subpanel in the garage or not? Any advantages on having a subpanel in the garage?. I will be eventually upgrade my panel to 200 Amps. I am not sure if I may want to do this at this point, it depends on the cost of the upgrade plus the other wiring work that must be done for the line to the garage and outside lights. '
The current plan is to remove the subpanel in the garage (its old) and install a new line from the main panel, and new lines to outside lights on the house (to code that is).
 
#11 ·
I plan to have the following in the garage,
washer/dryer, tv, radio, lights, fridge, ocassional use of light power tools such a circular saw, small compressor, pressure washer and possibly two future post lights that may be tapped to the garage circuit panel. Just what an average guy would have in his garage. I do not have any heavy equipment or tools and do not plan to use any other than what I have listed for homeimprovement projects.

If I decide to add a subpanel on the garage, what size should it be?, how big would the breaker on the main panel to feed this subpanel if I upgrade the main panel to 200amps?.
 
#12 ·
You have to have a sub panel in the garage with the items you want to run. There is no way around it.

Questions:
1. Is this a detached garage? I assume it is, but could not find where you specifically mentioned if it was.

2. How is the current sub panel connected, is there conduit running to it?

3. Do you really need to upgrade to 200A service? - Do you use electric hot water, electric dryer, a heat pump, hot tub, pool? I mean, I don't care if you upgrade, it is just unnecessary for many people.

4. What model and size (number of breaker slots) panel do you have in the house - a photo of this would be great, one with the cover off would be even better if your comfortable removing the cover. -I just want to get a feel for what you dealing with. If it's in reasonable order, and has space, then I'd may lean towards leaving it alone, if it is a mess and or it is full, I would lean towards replacing it, and perhaps a service upgrade if your going to have to replace the whole panel, but I just can't tell you that without more details and or photos.

Do you have or can you take and post some photos of the setup with the current panels?

Once you help fill in a few more details, we can get to specifics as to what you want /need to do.

Jamie
 
#19 ·
Are permites required when you do this underground ran for the cables from the house to the garage? Will this be mapped by the utility company and kept in records or is it up to me to do something about it?. Part of the concrete is driveway. I will look into having it bury.

So far, I am inclining to leave my 100 amp main panel and add a 60 amp sub-panel for the garage with the underground line.
I appreciate all input. This is very helpful in deciding what I need.
I will still post some pictures of the main panel as soon as I have them to get comments on possible replacement by a newer 100 amp panel.
 
#21 ·
Pictures of the panels

As promised here are the pictures of the panels. What do you think? would the 100 Amp main panel require replacement?. I will definetly have the garage done but I am not sure if I want to replace/upgrade the main panel at this time due to the cost.
 

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#23 ·
Thanks for posting the photos.

Garage, no question, new panel.

House, I don't see very many ground wires in there. Are there ground wires coming into that panel from the house circuits?

If there are circuits that are ungrounded, then you want to consider rewiring them.

The panel it's self, it sure isn't pretty. I think those may be FPE breakers that have had some failures. Were it my house, I would not give it a second thought and that panel would be replaced with a new clean modern panel. But the absolute necessity of that is up for debate.

Jamie
 
#29 ·
Looks not so good. That looks like a zinsco breaker panel, good luck finding breakers.

I would get rid of that zinsco and fuse panel.

Fuses aren't that bad, zinsco is more dangerous.

Yes, you can go slow on it. Grounding isn't as serious as to require you to do a full rewire immediately.

I would put a new service and main in. This would let you do the rest one by one.
 
#30 ·
Looks not so good. That looks like a zinsco breaker panel, good luck finding breakers.

I would get rid of that zinsco and fuse panel.

Fuses aren't that bad, zinsco is more dangerous.

Yes, you can go slow on it. Grounding isn't as serious as to require you to do a full rewire immediately.

I would put a new service and main in. This would let you do the rest one by one.

What kind of panel do you guys recommend?. I probably would like to install a 200 Amp panel since I have to do the work anyways. Which panel is good for the price and would be easy to find parts for?

Thanks
 
#33 ·
I have been looking into changing my main panel (possibly upgrade to 200Amp), new underground lines to the garage and new subpanel in garage but I may be looking at anywhere from $1500-$2000 cost. I am not sure if I could spend this much money at this time. Based on the pictures shown before would you classified this as a project that requires inmediate attention (safety hazard) or could it be delayed 9 to 12 months?
 
#35 ·
I don't believe overload would be an issue at my house. I do not have any unexpected loads or appliances. I have a dishwasher, washer, mircrowave, two TV (plasma), lights all over the house, and ocassional circular saw and drill in garage. I do not think this would be close to over loading a 100 amp circuit, right?
 
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