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Old 11-07-2013, 06:50 PM   #1
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


I am in the process of figuring out lighting for my home. I have done some research on recessed lighting, but am a bit confused.

I know 6" LED are cheaper than 4". I am having a hard time figuring out the cans & bulbs needed. I was quoted $1400 for 16 recessed lights including labor/materials for 6" LEDs. Contractor would use FEIT_Electric, which I believe are the same as these Menards_6inLED.

Here is what I am proposing:

Kitchen: 6 LED lights

Dining (left of living room): 4 LED lights

Hallway: 2 LED lights

Living Room: 6 LED lights on separate switches, so I could dim 3 LED lights independently.

1. Should I just go with the 6" LED and forget about the 4" LEDs? In my mind 4" LED would look better.

2. How would I match the dimmer to the type of bulbs so there is no dimming issues or buzzing sound?

3. IF I went with the 6" LED do you think that would be too many lights?

See below for layout.


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Old 11-07-2013, 07:20 PM   #2
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


In my kitchen, which is a total of 10'X20' I have 2 zones of small 4" lights. They are Phillips LED lights. The first zone is directly,over the table and has 4 lights. The second zone is the rest of the kitchen and is more for general lighting and includes 9 lights. 7 of the lights are positioned around the perimeter of the room and only 2 of them are in the middle.
Yes I tend to like lighting. I have 44 recessed lights throughout the inside of my house-just 1 lamp!
More lights the better, espicially with the newer LED's and put everything on dimmers!

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Old 11-08-2013, 04:24 AM   #3
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


I don't feel that is enough lights in the kitchen. I would look at 2 or 3 rows to provide even lighting. Kitchens require a higher level of lighting. I typically use a grid on 4 foot centers in kitchens.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:36 AM   #4
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


we typically line up the cans in the kitchen with the edge of the counter ..ie @ 24" center off the wall ... cause that is where yo need the line .... and you work @ the counter so any light behind you will shadow work area ,,,

then maybe fan in center ..

pendant over the sink switch seperate ... for night time etc
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:24 PM   #5
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


brucem609, Jim Port, Philly Master thank you for your input. I am putting a dimmer on each of the lights, any suggestions on the brand or model#?

brucem609 - can you provide the specific details of the cans and model# of led lights you used?

Jim Port - Not sure what grid on 4 foot centers in kitchens means. Sounds like I need 4 or 3 lights per row?

Philly Master - Good advice, I did not think about lining up with counter edge.

Would the number of recessed lights be affected by 4" or 6" LEDs? What is your preference in diameter for lighting 4" vs 6"?
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:22 PM   #6
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


Quote:
Would the number of recessed lights be affected by 4" or 6" LEDs?
The 6" produces 840 lumens times 16 equals 13,440 lumens.

The 4 inch http://www.menards.com/main/lighting...353-c-6358.htm
produces 459 lumens. If we divide 13,440 by 459 we get 29.28. So you are looking at 29 or 30 to give you an equal amount of light.

As far as dimmers, use one that is made for LED's. I am partial to Lutron dimmers. Any of their C.L line would work. You have a number of styles to choose from (Maestro,Diva, etc).
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:34 PM   #7
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Wow that is a lot of 4" LED lights. Looks more economical to go with 6". I will give this more thought and come back with more info.

Last edited by badsha; 11-08-2013 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:59 PM   #8
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


The grid I was talking about is where from the center of one light to the next is 4 foot left to right and also north and south.
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:08 PM   #9
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


I also have under cabinet lighting which I use daily for work while at the counters. Believe me I have plenty of lighting in the kitchen. Use for the most part they are over the center of the counters, but as I said I have the halogen under cabinet lighting.
Yes me too , partial to Lurton dimmers. I think they are called Maestro. They are a touch dimmer and then the lights come on/off slowly to,a pre set level - they are nice.
The LED's do not add any heat to the kitchen which is nice in the summer.
I just prefer the small 4" cans over the big 6" ones in the kitchen. They look less obtrusive and you can direct the light to the place you want it better,,I believe. Additionally I had water pipes, drains, etc,in the ceiling and to fit a 6" can up there would not have happened.
I used the commercial,electric brand -which I think is the Home Depot brand. I picked them up as a set, fixture/trim together.
Hope this all helps

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Old 11-12-2013, 06:55 AM   #10
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


What's going over the sink? I've always found it's better to have two lights, offset to the sides. This way you don't get as many problems with shadows. If you're using recessed lights, that is.

Where are you planning on putting the switches? Having six dimmers seems excessive. Will you be using a 3-way setup to handle controlling them from different locations?

We went with some 4" cans with slotted baffles for a butler's pantry (bar off dining room) and the upstairs hallway. Everywhere else we went with 5" cans. The 4" cans provide very directional down-light. The 5" do a better job of illuminating an area. 6" cans are a bit BIG.

As for 'how many' we've got 4 around the dining room ceiling, in addition to the center fixture. The combination of the two gives very good lighting options. That's where some 4" cans with open baffles might look nice. Four 6" ones would look a bit heavy.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:33 AM   #11
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


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Originally Posted by brucem609 View Post
Yes me too , partial to Lurton dimmers. I think they are called Maestro. They are a touch dimmer and then the lights come on/off slowly to,a pre set level - they are nice.
Nice, yes, but pretty expensive for led lighting. We just did it in our basement. with the Maestro LED wireless switches. Nice because you don't have to run wires for 3 way switches. One Maestro switch will support up to 10 wireless remotes. The switches are rf (not ir) so the remotes work through walls and around corners.

The remotes can be free handed or mounted on a wall within a standard switch plate to look like an authentic switch. If I remember correctly though the price for the switch was about $80 for the LED version.

The left side is an actual switch while the right side is a remote (for another maestro switch):

Last edited by Bob Sanders; 11-12-2013 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:44 AM   #12
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Nice, yes, but pretty expensive for led lighting. We just did it in our basement. with the Maestro LED wireless switches.
We just did the whole house with Radio RA2. If you think Maestro are expensive... But gotta love being able to use keypads and the Pico remotes.

Whose wall plate is that? Interesting look!
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:51 AM   #13
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Whose wall plate is that? Interesting look!
Can't rmemeber the brand name, but they were off the shelf at home depot.

Yes though...The remotes sure make things a lot more flexible. I'd like to see Lutron come up with a simple rf receiver module (not switch) that you bury up into the rafters or something and just use remotes. You wouldn't have to do any prewiring to switch locations... or even worry about it on the blue prints anymore.

Last edited by Bob Sanders; 11-12-2013 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:27 AM   #14
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


badsha came by my house on Sunday and saw my collection of both 6" and 4" lights....it answered some questions.....and created more.....

Very nice couple BTW....it's their first house and they are doing the mods before they move in.....my wife and I told them that they are missing out on a lot of fun by not living there while the construction is going on....
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:40 AM   #15
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LED Recessed Lighting Kitchen/Dining/Living Room/Hallway


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sanders View Post
Can't rmemeber the brand name, but they were off the shelf at home depot.

Yes though...The remotes sure make things a lot more flexible. I'd like to see Lutron come up with a simple rf receiver module (not switch) that you bury up into the rafters or something and just use remotes. You wouldn't have to do any prewiring to switch locations... or even worry about it on the blue prints anymore.
They do. The Homeworks QS and Radio RA2 lines use a receiver. HW is pretty high end (read: $$$) but has that RF switch. RA2 will be getting that switch later this year. Not sure I'd ever buy into the idea of having no on-wall placement of hard-wired devices though. Remotes have batteries, and those die, especially when you most need them...

There's really not a lot about lighting design that requires total flexibility. You'd still have to design where the fixtures are installed, and there's only so many ways to use the lighting in a room. Having more program-ability is great, using keypads and tablets is a great way to get that. That and since tech changes pretty rapidly there's something to be said for having a traditional wiring scheme. Then it's just a matter of replacing the wall devices as tech trends change, not the in-ceiling devices.

Light-integrated ones are even less appealing (as a sole solution) because they greatly increase the cost of the 'bulb'. But for some situations, tied to other controls, they're definitely worth considering.

The biggest problem to overcome with in-device automation is constant power and local switching. Putting a 'smart bulb' in an existing lamp does you no good if someone turns it off with the physical switch.

Breaking decades of user behavior is likewise problematic. We had table dimmers for a bunch of lamps (including some floor standing ones) and it's been a bit of a surprise to discover just how readily everyone 'got used to' not using the switches on the lamps themselves. This because during the move into the new house we don't have all the ceiling fixtures in place yet (not even chosen yet). So we put a floor lamp nearby. Using the 3-way under the shade seems 'so foreign' compared to it having been on a table dimmer and keypads. I have a table dimmer to be used for it, just not in this location. But I may just use an in-line dimmer for now and reprogram a keypad button to control it.

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