Kitchen Wiring Questions - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-13-2007, 09:06 PM   #1
Paint Store Dude
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 36
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Hello All,
I have some reasonably simple questions on what is code required for wiring in a kitchen.
I have completely gutted the kitchen project I am working on so putting the new wiring will be easy to install.
I know that 2 small appliance circuits are needed, on both sides of the sink if possible. Both will be GFCI protected with the load outlet after the GFCI. Can you run 2 outlets after the GFCI or only one? Is there a minimum/maximum distance required between the outlets?
I know the refrigerator is required to have a dedicated circuit.
There will be a gas stove/range. There will be a circuit for that but is it permissible to run the overhead lights off that circuit? The lighting load will be 3 can lights with some type of smaller light over the sink. Would it be ok to run a outlet off the SAC to service the stove and put the lights on its own circuit.
all the circuits will be 12/2 breakered at 20 amp unless I can have a dedicated lighting circuit then that would be 14/2 15 amp

Hope this all makes sense.
Thanks for and and all responses
Chuck

Advertisement

Chazbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 09:22 PM   #2
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,344
Rewards Points: 3,482
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Kitchen counter receptacles must be located so that no section of counter is more than 2 feet away. That means one within 2 feet of end then every 4 feet after. Can be closer if you wish.
Any section of counter 1 foot or larger must have receptacle.
Gas stove and lights can be on the same circuit.
Nothing can be on sme circuit as counter recptacles.

Advertisement

joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 10:00 PM   #3
Union Electrician
 
goose134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago, USA
Posts: 615
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Don't forget that if you have an island, you need an outlet. You can use one of your countertop circuits to power it. It's never a bad idea to run a dedicated circuit for the dishwasher either. As for maximum outlets on the load side of a GFI, I'm not sure. I think manufacturers generally recommend less than 10, or nuisance tripping becomes an issue.
goose134 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 10:29 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 325
Rewards Points: 296
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Here's what I gathered so far about kitchen codes:
  1. Kitchen needs at least 2 seperate 20A GFCI circuits for outlets. Additional outlets can be attached to either one of those circuits but all recepts must be GFCI protected
  2. Microwave needs a 20A dedicated circuit (not GFCI)
  3. Dishwasher needs dedicated 15A circuit (not GFCI)
  4. Each electric range needs own dedicated 50A circuit
  5. Garbage Disposal needs own 15A dedicated circuit (not GFCI)
  6. Now I've heard as of 2008 Refrigerators needs own 15A GFCI protected circuit (some places say 20A). That's kinda weird to me, fridges are known to trip GFCI's and their plugs are behind them in a very inconvenient place to test/reset. Everytime it trips, you have to roll/pull out the fridge to reset it, and if it nuisance trips at an bad time risk your food spoiling. Probably one of those scenarios you're probably best with a GFCI breaker instead of outlet as the breaker will be more convenient to access
  7. Lighting can not be hooked into any of the above, but can be hooked into another rooms electricals though (but not bathroom)
  8. Within 24" of a counter top edge, need to have a receptacle. Every 48" counter from there, need another receptacle. When you come to a cook top or sink, if there's 12"+ of space behind them, they're considered part of your countertop so follow the 48" rule... which may mean putting a receptacle behind your sink/cook top. If there isn't 12"+ behind, then receptacles must be within 24" of the sides.
  9. Corner sinks/cook tops follow the above except if you measure diagonally out from the corner and there's 18"+ to the edge of the sink/cook top then must follow the 48" rule and usually mean you need a receptacle in the corner behind them, otherwise must be within 24" of the corners closest to wall.
  10. No recepts allowed over 20" above countertop unless physically handicapped or islands/penninsulas where normal placement not possible
  11. No face up recepts
  12. Any counter or island 12"+ needs a receptacle.
Good idea to put it all in a subpanel. This is just what I've gathered as I go about researching how to lay out my kitchen and prepare for the costs. Not saying it's complete but I think it may be all of them. I'm planning on an electrician to do mine.

Last edited by Piedmont; 11-14-2007 at 04:19 PM.
Piedmont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 11:52 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


This is so timely for what we are doing! We are plotting circuits, setting plugs, and pulling wire in our cabin.

"7. Lighting can not be hooked into any of the above, but can be hooked into another rooms electricals though (but not bathroom)"

Why can they not be hooked up with outlets? And why not the bathroom?
leezarrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 12:21 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 325
Rewards Points: 296
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


If I had to take a guess, it's because appliances used in the kitchen draw a severe load particularly 2 going at the same time on the same circuit. Then, you combine todays kitchen lighting which can also pull some serious wattage and you can frequently trip the breaker. Having them all on the same circuit, having a breaker trip at night while cooking can leave you in a dangerous situation trying to find your way around in the dark at night around hot objects... with the lighting not on the same circuit as recepts, you'll lose the recepts but not the lighting. That would be my guess though I can't say for sure.

The reason for the bathroom is, because of bathroom code and there is technically a way one can hook kitchen lighting to bathroom lighting. Bathrooms can be setup 2 ways, you can run a 20A breaker and 12 awg wire to a GFCI outlet in a bathroom, and by code that outlet can power other outlets in the same bathroom along with lighting & fans in that bathroom but that's it. It can't power other rooms period, it can only be used for that one bathroom. OR that 20A GFCI receptacle can only power receptacles in said bathroom and receptacles in other bathrooms but can not do anything else BUT power receptacles in bathrooms. If you're set up that way the lighting in that bathroom and other bathrooms then needs to be on a different circuit and in that case kitchen lighting can actually be hooked into the lighting circuit that runs your bathroom lighting.

Last edited by Piedmont; 11-14-2007 at 01:56 PM.
Piedmont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 12:39 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 86
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Thanks!
leezarrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 01:21 PM   #8
Paint Store Dude
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 36
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Thanks to everyone for all the responses
Your right that very soon kitchens will need its own sub panel. Only a few years ago whole houses had 100 amp feeds, soon just the kitchen will need a 100 amp service.
This setup is for a rental house I'm doing. No dishwasher, disposal, hard wired microwave, or island. I think i will end up with 5 circuits in this 10x15 room.
2 SAC, refridge, stove and 1 other floor level outlet that will be near where a table would be placed and a kitchen lighting circut.
Chuck
Chazbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 04:47 PM   #9
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Not saying it is necessarily good practice...but... The refridgerator could go on the small appliance branch circuit. As a matter of fact, the 2008 code will require the ref. to be GFCI protected, so you can bet alot of contractors will skip the ref. homerun and put it on the SABC.

The "floor level "outlet (if it is in the kitchen or dinig room) could also be on the SABC.

If (and only if) the cooktop is gas, It can be on the SABC as well.

See chazbe, I knocked ya from five to two. I'm not gonna claim two is better than five, but it is compliant.

Of course if it is my house...Its getting two, here is why.
The fridge draws very little.

The gas cooktop draws even less.

That outlet by the table might get a vacuum plugged in every once in a while, but that is it.

Andy
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 07:49 PM   #10
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Keep it in your mind not all the states will adopt new 2008 code cycle right away.

some will adopt some of it and change a bit.

so it will be wise to check ahead of the time.

some inspector will give you a cut off date with the old codes and go with new codes so just let you know ahead of the time to save yourself some headache later on the time.

for other peoples plan to do the remodeling or rewireing in spring time and later time you may want to check ahead of the time to see what their state will adopt the new code [ some are on 02 , some on 05 , some are 99 code cycle and some case really oddone as well ]

Merci, Marc

P.S. most electrician will mention most recent code cycle and pretty good chance they will start talking about in 08 code cycle so just watch out with the running change.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 08:18 PM   #11
Union Electrician
 
goose134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago, USA
Posts: 615
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


So they are getting rid of exception #2 of 210.8? Seems kind of silly. Although the prospect of a large, energized, metal box in a room with water in it doesn't appeal to me either. Will a GFI be required if you install a single outlet instead of a duplex?
goose134 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 08:34 PM   #12
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Goose, The only two exceptions that will remain in the '08 code (GA should adopt based on past history in 01/09) are for "not readily accessible" recp's for de-icing equipment on the roof and for a burglar alarm in the basement. My understanding is that the new refridg. are UL listed NOT to trip the GFCI.

Now that don't help when you move into your new house with Aunt Bessies' inhereited 1989 fridge.

Edit to add: The above exceptions are for dwelling units . There are a couple other exceptions for commercial/ industrial, but those have decreased as well. These changes are good, In my opinion. 'til I lose a fridge full of food, that is.

Last edited by Andy in ATL; 11-14-2007 at 08:37 PM.
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 07:07 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 192
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


not sure where everybody is located, but CA has title 24 which defines lighting requirements for the kitchen (and the rest of the house).
steve1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 07:10 PM   #14
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


California is "special".
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 07:42 PM   #15
Paint Store Dude
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 36
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Kitchen Wiring Questions


Steve1234, does CA define the lighting layout/candlepower or just wire/breaker stuff?
Just wondering

Advertisement

Chazbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aluminum-wired house, questions LMH Electrical 2 05-24-2009 04:06 AM
Replacing wiring in middle of run, ungrounded lighting circuit alexz Electrical 3 07-05-2007 09:53 PM
Kitchen Cabinets and Walls ththomps Remodeling 4 09-18-2006 11:23 PM
Knob & Tube wiring - How concerned should we be? hotdiggitydog Electrical 6 04-11-2006 08:52 PM
Wiring gage questions microtcpip Electrical 6 03-27-2006 10:12 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts