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Old 10-06-2008, 11:09 PM   #16
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Is this kitchen remodel code compliant?


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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Any and all receptacles that serve the kitchen countertop must be GFCI protected per IRC E3802.6 (same in the NEC). Any receptacle located over the countertop is going to be deemed to serve the countertop, and there is no provision for dedicated receptacles in that area. Dedicated receptacles can be placed behind the fridge and in a cabinet for permanently mounted microwaves, and do not require GFCI protection. If a microwave is plugged into a countertop-serving receptacle, it is not considered dedicated and must be GFCI protected.
I get the code, but I personally wouldn't put the big 240 V mixer in my kitchen on a GFCI. For one, it ain't very portable. I treat it like a dedicated piece of equipment. It's receptacle is there to serve it alone, not "serve the countertop", though it happens to be on the countertop. My inspector and I had this conversation. We came to the agreement that "serves the countertop" meant supplies power to portable and ambiguous equipment that could be located anywhere. My 240 V dedicated didn't fit that definition, though it was on the countertop. But that was just our conclusion. Others may take a different view.

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The 6 foot rule is not applicable in kitchens. It is from E3802.7, which governs bar areas (non food preparation). It doesn't matter how far a receptacle serving the countertop is from a sink in a kitchen...It has to be GFCI.
In my post, I mention the 6 ft rule because you can easily have a kitchen receptacle that isn't serving a countertop or bar area. If that recept is out of range of the sink it isn't required to be GFCI'd.

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Old 10-07-2008, 09:49 AM   #17
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Is this kitchen remodel code compliant?


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Originally Posted by jheavner View Post
...Legal action would not be my first choice and I'm happy to pay for repairs if the costs are reasonable but once repairs start running into the thousands of dollars then I'm going to seek seller concessions. They (or a contractor working on their behalf) made this mess and it seems like steps were taken to make everything appear legit that aren't...
I would buy a house with the wiring up to code... Or not up to code and needing updating.

But, I would pay more for a house with all the wiring installed to code/inspected and less for a house needing work. I would pay even less for a house, if I knew uninspected electrical work was done.

I would be quite ticked if someone represented to me that a house I was purchasing had the wiring installed to code - was led to believe the wiring was installed to a certain standard, then later learned this was not the case!

FYI - When purchasing the house, I would want a reduction in price equal to the cost of paying an electrician to repair the electrical problems. In the case of electrical work not inspected, I would offer an even lower price to cover going over the entire house to be sure there were no other dangerous problems lurking. (If they cut corners on the electrical, then what else did they do which is not up to code?)
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:01 AM   #18
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Is this kitchen remodel code compliant?


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Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
I would buy a house with the wiring up to code... Or not up to code and needing updating.

But, I would pay more for a house with all the wiring installed to code/inspected and less for a house needing work. I would pay even less for a house, if I knew uninspected electrical work was done.

I would be quite ticked if someone represented to me that a house I was purchasing had the wiring installed to code - was led to believe the wiring was installed to a certain standard, then later learned this was not the case!

FYI - When purchasing the house, I would want a reduction in price equal to the cost of paying an electrician to repair the electrical problems. In the case of electrical work not inspected, I would offer an even lower price to cover going over the entire house to be sure there were no other dangerous problems lurking. (If they cut corners on the electrical, then what else did they do which is not up to code?)
This is the heart of the matter. Our home inspector did, what we thought, was a pretty thorough job but it was beyond the scope of his inspection to find bootleg grounds, mislabeled and incorrect circuits, or circuits to nowhere. Had we known what we were getting then I wouldn't be as concerned. I could have even accepted some degree of ignorance on the part of a DIY homeowner. Where I start to get bothered is when it appears that steps were taken to hide faults or fool a home inspection.

My electrician comes tomorrow so hopefully I'll get to the bottom of this and I can start fixing my problems.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:01 AM   #19
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Is this kitchen remodel code compliant?


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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
I get the code, but I personally wouldn't put the big 240 V mixer in my kitchen on a GFCI. For one, it ain't very portable. I treat it like a dedicated piece of equipment. It's receptacle is there to serve it alone, not "serve the countertop", though it happens to be on the countertop. My inspector and I had this conversation. We came to the agreement that "serves the countertop" meant supplies power to portable and ambiguous equipment that could be located anywhere. My 240 V dedicated didn't fit that definition, though it was on the countertop. But that was just our conclusion. Others may take a different view.
Ahhh, I'd agree with you on that, albeit a strange circumstance. The code only requires GFCI protection on "all 125 volt, single phase, 15 and 20 ampere receptacles...." in a kitchen. You and your inspector handled it correctly since this is a 240 volt mixer. That's one heck of a mixer!

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