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Old 05-04-2012, 11:15 AM   #61
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See, that is the problem. You are assuming something that isn't by reading something into what someone posted. I really do not know where you got all of that, from what I posted. But hey, more power to you.

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Old 05-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
See, that is the problem. You are assuming something that isn't by reading something into what someone posted. I really do not know where you got all of that, from what I posted. But hey, more power to you.
and like i said, maybe i was misinterpreting your statement:

Quote:
Then why are you telling people to use the 80/20 rule for figuring load for a DW or GD, or any other household appliance? Every consumer appliance out there makes it simple by telling people what the min & max amp is, so they do not have to do the calculations. And as for the 50/50 rule for existing circuits, I can tell you first hand that what I see on a day to day use for my home, we do not even come close to using even 5 amps on most circuits. Only ones that I ever see come close is the dryer & wash machine when they are running. Other than that, I do not even come close to the circuit rating of the breakers protecting them.

If I had you as my electrician, when I redid my house, I would have ended up with a 200 amp panel, for only having to need 45-55 amps use, for maybe two days out of the week.
can you explain what you meant by this? you seem to be saying that the 80% and 50% rules described in 210.23 don't have to be considered because in reality, the current draw is so low. the draw may be such that the rules don't apply but that doesn't mean they can be categorically ignored.

and if i am reading this wrong, please clarify what you meant.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #63
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and like i said, maybe i was misinterpreting your statement:

can you explain what you meant by this? you seem to be saying that the 80% and 50% rules described in 210.23 don't have to be considered because in reality, the current draw is so low. the draw may be such that the rules don't apply but that doesn't mean they can be categorically ignored.

and if i am reading this wrong, please clarify what you meant.
As has been stated over and over, the 80% rule does not apply to residential, nor does the where in the world are you coming up with "the current draw is so low. the draw may be such that the rules don't apply but that doesn't mean they can be categorically ignored." Which I do not know where you are getting that from.

Maybe you should not troll what I stated before, and move on. And what does this all have to do with the title of the thread? That I am trying to figure out myself, unless you are trying to beat that poor horse to death, because you think that you got some naive joe blow homeowner who does not have a clue. Sorry, but you have another thing coming if you think that I am just some dumbsh** because you assumed that from what I stated. Same with electures thinking that.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
As has been stated over and over, the 80% rule does not apply to residential, nor does the where in the world are you coming up with "the current draw is so low. the draw may be such that the rules don't apply but that doesn't mean they can be categorically ignored." Which I do not know where you are getting that from.

Maybe you should not troll what I stated before, and move on. And what does this all have to do with the title of the thread? That I am trying to figure out myself, unless you are trying to beat that poor horse to death, because you think that you got some naive joe blow homeowner who does not have a clue. Sorry, but you have another thing coming if you think that I am just some dumbsh** because you assumed that from what I stated. Same with electures thinking that.
How can you possibly argue that the 50% rule does not apply to residential installations?

Quote:
210.23(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit
ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected
utilization equipment not fastened in place, or
both, are also supplied.
the issue was putting a garbage disposal on the same circuit as lighting. it can be done, provided the disposal is not rated over 50% of the circuit rating. so if it was a 15 A circuit, the disposal cannot draw over 7.5 A and still be on the same circuit as lighting. it doesn't matter if the disposal draws 7.6 A and there is one light bulb on the circuit. they couldn't be together. will the circuit be overloaded? is it dangerous? no but that isn't the point. point is code says you can't do it.

i'm not trying to troll your posts or anything like that. concern is that a casual browser sees your post about how 50% rules don't apply to residencies and runs with it. fact is, 50% rule does apply. it isn't encountered often but it is there.

and there is an 80% provision, cord connected equipment that is not fastened in place cannot exceed 80% of the rating of the circuit rating. an excellent example of this is a mobile dishwasher. if it draws over 12 A, it can't be plugged into a 15 A circuit that also serves lights or other receptacles.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:30 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
As has been stated over and over, the 80% rule does not apply to residential, nor does the where in the world are you coming up with "the current draw is so low. the draw may be such that the rules don't apply but that doesn't mean they can be categorically ignored." Which I do not know where you are getting that from.

Maybe you should not troll what I stated before, and move on. And what does this all have to do with the title of the thread? That I am trying to figure out myself, unless you are trying to beat that poor horse to death, because you think that you got some naive joe blow homeowner who does not have a clue. Sorry, but you have another thing coming if you think that I am just some dumbsh** because you assumed that from what I stated. Same with electures thinking that.
What article is that?

Thinking what?
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:41 PM   #66
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Over 30 years, including Military

As already stated, I would never hire you, because of who you are and your atitude, and not required for my area, unless the drop falls off my house, then I have to call an electrician, otherwise, a homeowner can perform all electrical work in their home, where I live.
Is that including time spent on forums?
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:13 PM   #67
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Is that including time spent on forums?
Excuse me. Doubtful. Maybe you should find some other chore to do, same as itsnotrequired, since it appears that you two are so bored, that you have ran out of stuff to do, other than spend more time on here, than most of us that actually have jobs during the day and do not get the pleasure to sit on here being annoying like you two.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:40 PM   #68
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good grief, man. all i am trying to do is make sure others reading this thread are getting correct information. fact is, there are 50% and 80% circuit rules that are applicable to residential wiring, the kind most diy folks deal with. to say otherwise is flat out wrong. misinformation is a bad thing for folks doing things themselves.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:05 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Excuse me. Doubtful. Maybe you should find some other chore to do, same as itsnotrequired, since it appears that you two are so bored, that you have ran out of stuff to do, other than spend more time on here, than most of us that actually have jobs during the day and do not get the pleasure to sit on here being annoying like you two.
Excuse me. 6200+ posts and you are commenting on the amount of time I spend here. Sounds like your are the one who needs to get a life and stop trolling this forum to pick fights using your limited knowledge.

FYI. I plan on spending a lot more time here now. My work has just begun..
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Last edited by electures; 05-05-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:08 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by itsnotrequired View Post
good grief, man. all i am trying to do is make sure others reading this thread are getting correct information. fact is, there are 50% and 80% circuit rules that are applicable to residential wiring, the kind most diy folks deal with. to say otherwise is flat out wrong. misinformation is a bad thing for folks doing things themselves.
@ itsnotrequired. This is what I like about you. Your ability to see through the BS and make sure the correct information is getting through. Keep up the good work!!
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:03 PM   #71
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Just a quick followup, DW and Disposal on a 20a circuit via a switched Duplex receptacle, correct? DW will be on bottom receptacle (always HOT), while Disposal will use the top.

This sound right?
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:01 AM   #72
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Just a quick followup, DW and Disposal on a 20a circuit via a switched Duplex receptacle, correct? DW will be on bottom receptacle (always HOT), while Disposal will use the top.

This sound right?
Without knowing the specs of each appliance, this question cannot be answered.

What size is the disposal?

What are the specs of the DW?
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:27 PM   #73
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as long as the duplex receptacle serves only the dishwasher and disposal, you are fine provided the sum of the loads does not exceed 20 amps or there is a manufacturer requirement that they need their own dedicated circuits.

to touch on what was being said before, if this duplex receptacle also served a light, neither the dishwasher or the disposal can be rated for more than 10 amps (50% rule).

so if you had a 10.1 amp dishwasher and a 1 amp disposal on the same circuit as a 40 watt bulb, you would be in violation. remove the bulb and increase the disposal to 9.9 amps and everything is fine.

pretty weird, huh?
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:06 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electures View Post
Without knowing the specs of each appliance, this question cannot be answered.

What size is the disposal?

What are the specs of the DW?
Neither appliance has been purchased yet.

To set the record straight (I am the OP), and lighting circuits were not involved.

To the code:

Quote:
210.23(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.
This says that my circuit is not regulated by the 50% rule. There are no lighting units; it will not be shared with non fastened in place cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment.

Has this difference of opinion been ironed out yet?

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