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Old 05-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by electures View Post
I prefer the DW on its own circuit and supplying the GD from a general lighting circuit.
A garbage disposal on the lighting circuit???

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Old 05-01-2012, 06:04 PM   #32
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Ralph III, mine will go into "Purge" mode if it loses power. When I decide to finish my Kitchen, I am just running a separate circuit for the DW. I know that ours is around 13 amps when running in Sanitizer mode.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to do it that way for various reasons. I would run a new 20amp circuit if installing a DW and GD together before cosidering the three way deal. If that weren't an option, I'd just live without the disposal.

Your unit draws quite a bit of amperage Gregzoll. I just installed a new GE (nothing too fancy) for my Inlaws and the most it ever drew was around 6.5 amps.

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Old 05-01-2012, 06:31 PM   #33
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1. 80% of 15A is 12A....
So? A dishwasher is not a continuous load ....
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:33 PM   #34
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It is for some households kb. I do not even think that the commercial ones would even fall into that category, due to they only run at the most maybe 5 min's per cycle.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:10 PM   #35
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You'll have to do better than that. The NEC does not require 80% or 125% for such appliances. Section 422.10(A) only requires the rating of an individual circuit shall not be less than the marked rating of the appliance. 13.6 Amps is less than 15, and would be Code-compliant.

The MOST cycle time I've seen on dishwashers is maybe an hour and 20 minutes. Hardly qualifies for "continuous" as defined by the NEC.

Running successive cycles takes time between unloading and loading -- again you've broken the running time, thus not meeting the criteria for continuous loads.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:56 PM   #36
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So? A dishwasher is not a continuous load ....
Didn't say it was. If the nameplate indicates it draws 13.6 amps running, it is drawing more then 80% of a 15amp breaker.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:58 PM   #37
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A garbage disposal on the lighting circuit???
Sure,as long as it doesn't draw more then 50% of the circuit rating.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:00 PM   #38
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Sure,as long as it doesn't draw more then 50% of the circuit rating.
Is it a continuous load? In other words, does it run from the time you press the button, until you go in and turn it off, run more than three hours?
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:16 PM   #39
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Is it a continuous load? In other words, does it run from the time you press the button, until you go in and turn it off, run more than three hours?
The NEC defines continuous as "expected to run for more than three hours." I would hope it doesn't run for more than three hours.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:24 PM   #40
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The NEC defines continuous as "expected to run for more than three hours." I would hope it doesn't run for more than three hours.
Then why are you telling people to use the 80/20 rule for figuring load for a DW or GD, or any other household appliance? Every consumer appliance out there makes it simple by telling people what the min & max amp is, so they do not have to do the calculations. And as for the 50/50 rule for existing circuits, I can tell you first hand that what I see on a day to day use for my home, we do not even come close to using even 5 amps on most circuits. Only ones that I ever see come close is the dryer & wash machine when they are running. Other than that, I do not even come close to the circuit rating of the breakers protecting them.

If I had you as my electrician, when I redid my house, I would have ended up with a 200 amp panel, for only having to need 45-55 amps use, for maybe two days out of the week.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:58 PM   #41
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Didn't say it was. If the nameplate indicates it draws 13.6 amps running, it is drawing more then 80% of a 15amp breaker.
Again I ask you "SO??"

First, you state that it is not a continuous load. In the very next breath, you invoke rules that are for continuous loads.

Show me in the Code where I have to upsize this circuit beyond 15 Amps for a non-continuous load.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:32 PM   #42
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the whole continuous vs. non-continuous loads has its limitations. for example, a motor that runs 2 hours and 59 minutes and then shuts off for one minute. repeat the cycle. non-continuous? compare that to something that runs for 3 hours and 1 minute and is then off for the next 21 hours. continuous?
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:44 PM   #43
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Both would be continuous, due to they are not switching on and off during the time of operation. I know, that some would state that a furnace can run for hours, but they need to go look at the info for that appliance, because it states in there that the unit and fan are rated for "Continuous operating limits".
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:35 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Ralph III View Post
For the life of me I cannot figure why the OP would ever consider this if he is going to be running a new circuit?

I really don't know why anyone would consider wiring the Disposal and Dishwasher in such a hokey wiring/three way switch scenario, minus having no other choice? Most dishwashers are digital today and if you get some kid constantly turning the Disposal on/off (while the dishwasher is trying to run) I can only see eventual damage resulting, IMHO.

Ralph
Well Ralph, I was given a plan by a well-known licensed electrician, and I was attempting to understand the connections. I believe that I said that I would ultimately run a 20amp circuit for both on one duplex receptacle.

I hope that makes your life easier
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:33 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Again I ask you "SO??"

First, you state that it is not a continuous load. In the very next breath, you invoke rules that are for continuous loads.

Show me in the Code where I have to upsize this circuit beyond 15 Amps for a non-continuous load.
Are you refering to post #39? If so, that was in response to post #38 which was in response to post#37 regarding a disposal. It had nothing to do with the DW.

AS for 422.10, I will concede that you are correct that the circuit should be sized for the nameplate rating. SO a 13.6A DW on a 15A circuit is ok.

I thought I was wrong one time before, but I was mistaken.

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Last edited by electures; 05-03-2012 at 09:45 AM.
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