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-   -   Kitchen Island - how do I get power to it? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/kitchen-island-how-do-i-get-power-30838/)

vsheetz 10-29-2008 04:28 AM

Kitchen Island - how do I get power to it?
 
Planning to add a kitchen island. It will be a simple single level island - granite top on a 48" base cabinet. No crawl space - concrete slab.
  1. As I understand, the island must have an duplex outlet in it - correct?
  2. And the outlet must a GFCI itself, or on a GFCI protected circuit - correct?
  3. How do I mount an electrical box, there is only the 48" base cabinet - no 2x4 framing to nail it to?
  4. How do I get power run to the island? There is a wall switch a few feet away that I could tap, but how to go about running the wire through the concrete? Can I cut a channel in the concrete and lay the wire in the channel?
thx!
Vince

TazinCR 10-29-2008 05:20 AM

The light switch will not have the supply you need. Just a hot and ground. How are you getting water and drain to the island?

DangerMouse 10-29-2008 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsheetz (Post 178191)
As I understand, the island must have an duplex outlet in it - correct?

never heard that before!
i made an island and it has no outlet on it...?

DM

theatretch85 10-29-2008 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MdangermouseM (Post 178213)
never heard that before!
i made an island and it has no outlet on it...?

DM

It is a requirement in the NEC code book to have an outlet on any counter space larger than 24"; I don't know the exact requirements here (someone else will post the requirements) but I believe the outlet has to be 6-12" from the top of the counter top, and no more than a 6" over hang with the counter in relation to the cabinet base.

Concrete slab you will probably have to chisel out a channel to drop some conduit in and run your wire through that. I couldn't tell you how far down it should go inside a house and much less in a kitchen area. Most kitchens I have ever seen with an island, had some sort of access below it whether it was the basement or a crawl space.

I don't believe water and drain are a requirement to have run to the island (unless of course your putting in a sink at the island). I believe only the electrical is required by code. The switch box may have power run to it, the Op will just have to test the wires for power at the switch and find out, otherwise find an outlet in the kitchen to run the island power off of.

DangerMouse 10-29-2008 07:35 AM

hmmm, you must mean a permanent island then, not a moveable one like i made? and how can the outlet be 6" above an island? aren't they flat???
i'm not getting it, i guess..... i'll put on another pot of coffee......

DM

Termite 10-29-2008 08:22 AM

The code does require a GFCI protected (20amp served) receptacle on every island in a kitchen. Sinks and drains are purely optional on islands, and have no bearing on the electrical requirement. Theatretch85 pretty much summed up the receptacle location requirements.

Mouse makes a good point about the fact that his island is movable. Pretty much impossible to install a receptacle on a movable island. Although the code makes no mention of it, it is my opinion that a movable island would be considered furniture and would not require a receptacle. I have encountered this a number of times, and only allow them to skip the receptacle if the island is movable (many people use bun feet and felt pads) and if there is finished flooring underneath. If the floor underneath isn't finished it is my opinion that it is a permanent fixture that will never be moved. I've had a couple builders try to get away with leaving the receptacle out and simply not screwing the cabinet down and leave off the base shoe, and try to convince me it is movable. :no: Remember, this isn't mentioned in the code, so you'd need to agree on it with your building inspector. Just an idea...

As for getting the wire to it...
Are you replacing the kitchen flooring? If so, the notch idea in the slab is all I can think of either. Normally, when planning for an island, the builder runs some conduit in/under the slab to fish a wire through.

Termite 10-29-2008 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MdangermouseM (Post 178229)
and how can the outlet be 6" above an island? aren't they flat???

It can't. It has to be within 12" of the surface of the countertop, mounted somewhere on the cabinet. It cannot be under a counter overhang that exceeds 6". If any sort of backsplash is included, the receptacle must be installed in the backsplash (some islands have two levels, for instance).

As for mounting the box, use a metal box, which is easily mounted in the cabinet faceframe, a fake drawer front, or a raised panel.

DangerMouse 10-29-2008 08:30 AM

ok, thanks for clearing that up kc. if the OP wanted a cupboard ABOVE the island, the wiring could come from above easily enough too, could it not?

DM

Paulustrious 10-29-2008 08:37 AM

Current Ontario code says that a peninsula or island does not require outlets as there is no wall to mount them on. However you almost certainly do want them.
They may (not must) be installed below the counter level. You can use one of these methods:
1) 15 amp 3-wire split.
2) 20 amp 2-wire, with one or two T-slot receptacles

Code requires GCFI if within 1 metre of the sink. However, use a GCFI in the first receptacle - it's not worth worrying about, and the next generation of Ontario code will demand it.

If the island is close to a wall then the inspector may deem it an eating area that requires receptacles to be mounted on the wall at that point.

Termite 10-29-2008 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulustrious (Post 178255)
Current Ontario code says that a peninsula or island does not require outlets as there is no wall to mount them on. However you almost certainly do want them.
They may (not must) be installed below the counter level. You can use one of these methods:
1) 15 amp 3-wire split.
2) 20 amp 2-wire, with one or two T-slot receptacles

Code requires GCFI if within 1 metre of the sink. However, use a GCFI in the first receptacle - it's not worth worrying about, and the next generation of Ontario code will demand it.

If the island is close to a wall then the inspector may deem it an eating area that requires receptacles to be mounted on the wall at that point.

Definate differences between Ontario and the NEC we use in the states! Interesting info!

Paulustrious 10-29-2008 09:17 AM

[offtopic] MDangerMouse, your no-prize quote looks like you've used the metre of the Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll.[/offtopic]

A cable can be suspended from the ceiling (or so I believe) provided it is protected from mechanical damage and supported every 4 feet. I have seen a chrome tube used for this that was also used to support a party-susan pan rack plus lighting. It looked very effective - although I do not know if it was under permit.

thekctermite - does your code vary much from State to State in terms of basic stuff like receptacle location, clamping, de-rating, box fill, grounding etc? I imagine there may be differences in vapour barrier requirements between Florida and Michigan, or maybe special stuff as regards earthquakes.

DangerMouse 10-29-2008 09:38 AM

Paul..... true, it does have that Jabberwocky smell to it.... but i don't think that's where it comes from....
but what do i know? i sit under a bridge in a mud puddle all day.....
-=chuckle=-

DM

DangerMouse 10-29-2008 09:42 AM

for anyone paying attention.... that was another clue.... -=chuckle=-
oh, and googleing this will get you nowhere but here.....
DM

Termite 10-29-2008 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulustrious (Post 178276)
[offtopic]
thekctermite - does your code vary much from State to State in terms of basic stuff like receptacle location, clamping, de-rating, box fill, grounding etc? I imagine there may be differences in vapour barrier requirements between Florida and Michigan, or maybe special stuff as regards earthquakes.

The electrical code doesn't vary too much, although local jurisdictions and states do adopt their own versions (california, chicago, NY, etc). The NEC is pretty widely accepted.

Building codes tend to vary regionally, and even from city to city. The International (ICC) codes are the norm, but there are a number of other exceptions depending on where you're at. You're right...What works in Florida won't work in Kansas, and what works in Kansas won't work in California or North Dakota.

sestivers 10-29-2008 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatretch85 (Post 178224)
It is a requirement in the NEC code book to have an outlet on any counter space larger than 24"; I don't know the exact requirements here (someone else will post the requirements) but I believe the outlet has to be 6-12" from the top of the counter top, and no more than a 6" over hang with the counter in relation to the cabinet base.

Crap. A couple years ago my kitchen was repaired by a contractor. When the island countertop was reinstalled, they rotated the countertop 180 degreees so the overhang is on the opposite end from its original configuration. So now I have about 16" of countertop overhanging above the outlet.

Do I need to remove the countertop and rotate it to its original configuration with ~1" of overhang above the outlet and the 16" overhang on the opposite end?


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