kitchen electrical

stickboy1375

My words are black and white, don't assume I was being aggressive... and it was a discussion, nothing more.

stickboy1375

What "you" feel is a better job is your own decision, the OP asked what was required, so you can't say the microwave, If the OP asked, "In your opinion, what appliances should I run a home run to?" then I would agree with you, but that wasn't the question asked, now was it?

stickboy1375

These items are fastened in place, and you cannot exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating when sharing the same circuit..... so this could be an issue...

gregzoll

Show the code cite. Give you a clue, there is no 50% requirement for residential, and you will find that buried in a citation regarding dw's and gd's. Bit hey, you know more than all of the rest of us.

I will help you out though. The NEC states in these exact words "As long as it does not exceed the stated amount of amps on the OCPD.". But hey, ai must be pulling that out my ass. Guess again stickboy.

I am done with you, since it is hard to win something when you are not trying, with people like you.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: So what'll happen?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?

stickboy1375

210.23(A)(2) BTW, there is no such thing as a Residential NEC,

..Infact, you may want to read 210.23 (A)(1) as well...

stickboy1375

You are missing so many sections of the NEC... and not sure why you have an issue with learning, its not a big deal, nobody expects anyone to be perfect.

edit- did you read the code section that I posted? And I thought people like you were the problem. If you think I am incorrect, simply just post the correct code sections. Im not imposed to being wrong... it happens everyday.

gregzoll

Yep, read through it everytime something like this comes up. Prob know it better than you do. Maybe you should spend more time following through the various jumps that the NEC makes in diff code cites, than sticking with one relvant section that you and a lot of others miss a certain part, that the 50% rule does not apply in resi settings.

Especially in the above part that you mis-cited. Whoops, did I just state something that the NEC covers in detail. Guess I did.

I have a life and if I did want to look it up, which I won't, but you are more than welcome to do so.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: So what'll happen?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?

gregzoll

Kid, you sure are picking a fight with the wrong person. Maybe you should spend some time reading through the NEC, than picking up sticks and being a gopher stickboy.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: So what'll happen?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?

k_buz

Could you give us an idea where you are getting this idea that 210.23 does not apply to residential branch circuits? I would like to know where we are all missing this.

__________________

gregzoll

k_buz, you like the kid really miss the point. Guessing that you along with the youngster should actually read the NEC, and stop pulling what you want out of the air, and reading more into what people post. But than again, you two have it in your own world that it is your way of thinking and no one else has an opinion.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: So what'll happen?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?

stickboy1375

I don't follow you, we actually post code sections, where as you just garble nonsense and opinions... prove me wrong with the NEC if you think that I am.

k_buz

Greg...you post here to help people out...correct? Then help us out. If we are reading the code incorrectly, please show us where so we don't make the same mistake in the future.

__________________

gregzoll

The part regarding the 50% rule that I stated does not apply is in the same code reference that you gave. Again, it has nothing to do with the OP orig. question, and if it was not for the kid attempting to make a stupid argument about nothing, which as I stated and answered in my opinion as to what the OP asked "What devices need dedicated outlets". But the kid took it as that it was required by code.

Then again, too many people like the kid tend to get so OCD about the code and delve on one finite point, instead of looking at the big picture, I am pretty much done at this point arguing about stupid **** that has nothing to do other than some kid trying to be stupid about nothing.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: So what'll happen?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?

stickboy1375

You gave incorrect advice about a microwave REQUIRING a dedicated circuit, I didn't want everyone to read that statement to believe that was true, because its not, if you stated it differently, or just accepted that fact, this conversation would not still be continuing, and YES, the 50% rule applies to appliances fastened in place. accept it.

And were electricians, how can we not be OCD when giving out advice? Don't you want someone to do a legal install? Because telling someone that the DW and garbage disposal can go on the same circuit is not always going to be legal.... it really is that simple.

k_buz

I am still missing it Greg, can you point it out?

210.23 Permissible Loads. In no case shall the load exceed
the branch-circuit ampere rating. An individual branch
circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is
rated. A branch circuit supplying two or more outlets or
receptacles shall supply only the loads specified according
to its size as specified in 210.23(A) through (D) and as
summarized in 210.24 and Table 210.24.

(A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20-
ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting
units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of
both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).
Exception: The small-appliance branch circuits, laundry
branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a
dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3) shall
supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.

(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment Not Fastened
in Place. The rating of any one cord-and-plug-connected
utilization equipment not fastened in place shall not exceed
80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.

(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total
rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branchcircuit
ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plugconnected
utilization equipment not fastened in place, or
both, are also supplied.

(B) 30-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 30-ampere branch circuit
shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with
heavy-duty lampholders in other than a dwelling unit(s) or
utilization equipment in any occupancy. A rating of any one
cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall not
exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.

(C) 40- and 50-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 40- or 50-
ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply cooking
appliances that are fastened in place in any occupancy.
In other than dwelling units, such circuits shall be
permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders,
infrared heating units, or other utilization equipment.

(D) Branch Circuits Larger Than 50 Amperes. Branch
circuits larger than 50 amperes shall supply only nonlighting
outlet loads.

__________________